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| Jul 11 2006, 4:00 AM EDT (current) | Jack783 | 2156 words added, 1 word deleted |
| Jul 11 2006, 3:46 AM EDT | Jack783 | 521 words added, 16 words deleted |
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Here's how i painted my car for about $50, it's actually very easy and the results are amazing. The thing i really like about this is that there's no mess, no tapeing the whole car, just key areas, and you can do it in your garage, since your not spraying there is virtually no dust in the air, just clean your garage first, also it does'nt really smell at all, dries overnight and it super tough paint. also it you decide to paint the car professionally later, just prep and paint, there's no need to strip the tremclad. i have done this to a few cars, and i can say it works amazing, you just have to be paitient.
Keep in mind i know a little about painting, i've shoot a few cars with single stage enamel with professional results, but it's expensive and tedious.
i have sprayed a few cars in my garage with a single stage acrylic enamel and it's a pain, messy, stinks, ect... the tremclad is almost odorless and is really easy to work with.
since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start.
depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can.
prepping is 90% of the work, stripping the car, sanding, ect.....painting is overrated!!!
So if you have TIME, then i'd say go for it, the worst that could happen is that it does'nt turn out and your out $50, but if your paitient, and expriement with lets say just the trunk pannel and if you like it do the whole car, if not just get it done by someone else for $4000. i don't know about you guys, but i would rather spend the $4000 on other parts like getting the mechanics sorted out and new chrome, cause when u have really nice paint and crappy bumpers, door handles it just sticks out more.
Examples:
69chargeryeehaa's - Charger - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 71 VW Beetle - midnight blue metalic - sprayed on
i first painted a 85 honda crx at my cottage in 1 day, i had no money, i did like 3 coats with no sanding and it looked great, i should scan that old pic and show you!!!. The job only looks as good as the time and effort that you put into it. the paint is extreemly durable, think about it, it's used to paint over rusted metal on things like tractors, metal railings, ect... and stand the elements. it is formulated to do just that.
Questions
I wonder how well it would look if you did this roller method, then followed up by shooting a coat of clear over top of it? --70Cuda383
i probally would say it would turn out very nice. but the workability of the paint would end there, besides the paint buffs to mirror so i see no need for a clear coat. they have a clear coat in the tremclad brand made for the paint but i don't think it's nescessary. i reciently buffed out a huge scratch when a guy tried to jump me at a drive thru atm (long story!!!) and i florred it ran over his feet turning tires, and pinned him between the wall and my car. the whole rear quarter had a really bad scuff, maybe it was his teeth and the buttons on his jacket, anyways it buffed right out, with clear it would be hard to do that. so i would say there's no need for clear unless you really want a show car finish. -- 69chargeryeehaa
I could not even imagine how well it would turn out if you sprayed it with a HVLP gun and wet sanded and polished.
-- 69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg 1
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I know this is a messy copy paste but I hope to clean it up later.
What temp?
As far as temperature goes it really doesn’t matter, I did my 74 beetle in the dead of winter, it was like -20 deg Celsius, I had a portable heater in the garage and 2x 1500W flood lights, I was warm enough. The charger I did this past September in about 25 deg Celsius and it was really humid with no difference, where when I sprayed a single stage on the 71 beetle I had to use the proper temperature reducer. As far as getting this paint to stick, all I can say is that it is made to be painted on BARE and RUSTED metal. The stuff sticks to rubber, glass, anything, like sh*t on a blanket (if you have kids you'll know what I mean !!! lol). I have no issues or question in my mind that this stuff sticks like crazy to bare metal. I'm sure it would stick on epoxy primer if you sand it with 800 grit before. I have never had any reaction to anything that I’ve painted over, I’ve painted motorcycle gas tanks and plastic covers, 3 cars, over base clear, the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, no issues. I’ve painted over automotive primer on my 74 beetle where I had exposed metal and knew I would leave it exposed for a while and didn’t want it to rust. I painted right over bondo, where I had a few really minor scratches and dents that I couldn’t bang out, no issues. I had a drop of the paint on glass, it was really hard to get off, I was afraid to use a razor because it could scratch my new windshield so I used a credit card and it was really, really hard to get off. I painted the door jambs, under trunk lid, under hood, everything. Try one panel and see it if works, u have to experiment with it, it took a lot of trial and error for me to get the "technique" down pat. my car is by no means a show car, but I couldn’t justify a $5000 paint job after just buying the car for $11000, buying new bumpers, door handles, emblems, all rubber, windshield, brake booster, heater core, headliner, carpet, door panels, brakes, ect....I spent all my money on the aesthetics, and mechanics, not to mention the car. I kind of rushed the charger because I HAD to drive my dream car as soon as I could. My 74 beetle I really took my time with and it is and looks like a $5000 paint job. I used a foam brush to paint the jambs and tight spots, and just ran the foam roller over it to smooth it out. I used tremclad flat black in a spray can for the rear tail panel on the charger.
Here are a bunch of close up good high res pics I just took of the car and the supplies I used and a few other pics of the beetle’s I painted:
http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/?start=0
69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2
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well basically i have the roller in one hand, and the foam "paint brush" (in the pics) in the other. you have to work fast because the paint becoms non workable in about 10 mins. so i do one pannel at a time. it goes quickly, takes about 1 hour for a coat on the whole car, i've done 2 coats in 1 day no issues, it dries fast. but for wet sanding i wait overnight. basically in the rain channels i would use the brush and cover it completely, then use the rounded end of the roller and go over it, it's hard to describe, u just have to be paitent and expirement on one pannel like the trunk lid and do the whole process and see if your happy, it's easy to bail the project with only having to re-do the trunklid if you can't handle it or have one of those "what the f*&k am i doing" moments!!!. I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat. Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!!
69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2
The shine on the cars (both the orange bug and the Charger)does not seem that deep. Maybe its the angle of the pictures...Would you say the shine is every bit as deep as any sprayed car you've seen? I'm not trying to be critical, just want to know what I may be getting myself into here. I still think its a great idea and give you a lot of credit for trying it and more importantly, making it work.
i would not compare the shine to a base clear paint job, but i would compare it to a good single stage acrylic enamel paint job. plus the more you buff the shinyer it gets, that's where i got lazy, but i plan to buff and wetsand more when i have the free time. i did the charger in 3 days, like i said i was ancy to get it done, doing the pee-pee dance dying to drive it so i rushed it a bit. in the sun it looks amazing, at night it looks perfect, in the shade you can see some flaws but i was not looking for a "perfect" paint job. the beetle however i did over the winter and it really looks good, no complaints. 3 weeks after i bought the charger i was driving it, it was totally stripped, re-did the interior, all the mechanics, and body work. it would have been done sooner if i would have got all the parts i ordered eariler. looking back i don't regret it at all, it was easy and got me on the road fast and cheep. I can allways re-do the paint anytime.
The paint on the car is not thick at all. 4 coats of paint that i sprayed on the 71 beetle midnight blue car (1 initial tack coat, 2 medium, and 1 flash coat to get the metalic uniform)used just over a can of paint with a HVLP gun on a beetle (they don't get smaller than that!!!) plus take into acount that about 1/3 is reducer. i used about 3/4 of a can on the charger, the paint is really thin. like i said eairler, you only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats. The charger is at least twice the surface area of the beetle, the paint on the 71 beetle is thicker than the paint on the charger and the 74 orange beetle. regarding the shine, if i spent 2 more days wetsanding and buffing the shine would be that of any professional single stage paint job on the charger. that being said like i mentioned earlier it depends on what YOU want out of the paint job, the thread topic is "paint job on a budget" and that is exactly what it is, plus i'm not paranoid about doing a dukes of hazzard drift on a dirt road and worrying about my precious paint. the car gets driven alot, and hard, every weekend to the cottage (400km round trip) and it gets stone chips, ect...so i'm not worried.
i'm not here to argue about the adhesion properties of the paint, the quality of the paint, what it really is, blah, blah, blah...i can say the paint IS MADE TO STICK TO BARE METAL, WOOD, FIBERGLASS, RUSTED METAL, CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, GRASS, GERBILS, basically anything (read the can). it's real easy to work with, does'nt smell at all (all you really smell is the mineral spirits used to thin the paint) plus i have had no reactions with underlying paint in any way shape of form on all the stuff i painted with it period. i would say it sticks roughly at least twice as good as any high quality single stage paint\primer\primer sealer out there. I've painted it in cold conditions and hot humid conditions with no issues. No fish eyes, peel, nothing. i've painted over it with single stage and BC/CC with NO ISSUES. The paint seems very inert, not prone to any of the stuff that auto paint is prone to. I have used the paint alot and can say it has not peeled, flaked off, nothing on anything i've used it on. Hell i even still have a 71 Kawasaki motorcycle i painted 15 years ago over the original paint and it still looks great.
TonyS451-there is no need for primer with this paint, if u have to use primer because you can't sleep at night then do so if u must, but trust me your just wasting your time. Automotive paints that are made for cars such as single stage or BC/CC are made to be sprayed, and NEED reducers/hardners to cure and dry properly, it's critical that they be used correctly, there is even different reducers depending on what temperatures u are shooting the paint in, so i would not compare this paint to auto paint nor try to roller auto paint. I have sprayed several cars, the 71 beetle in the pics as mentioned before was painted single stage acrylic enamel in my garage with a home made ventelation system, and i wetted down the floor when i was painting to keep dust down, and used a tack cloth ALOT. That car came out perfect, very hugh quality paint BUT it was a major pain in the butt, taping, dust, smell, washing paint out of my hair and nose for a week!!!!
well it just goes by "feel", theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker. if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run, but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin. and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.
There is no way i would try to roll on BC/CC it would definetly not work. that paint is ment to be atomized when sprayed, and you could never thin it down to the point where it does not run and is thin enough to apply. plus it would dry too fast with the correct reducers and flash over too quick. i think it would be impossible. when u just paint and sand, you're going to be sanding too much, and the paint is hard resulting in waves in the paint unless u sand really consistently, so the key is to lay it on thin and sand as little as possible, also when the paint layer is thin and the paint is thinned properly it "self levels" it's like bondo, u mix it up and it's just in a blob, let it sit for a few minutes and it flattens out, thats just what the paint does.
hope that helps
also i assume this only works for solid colors. have you tried doing stripes or anything?
yes, metalics are out of the picture here, no i haven't tried doing stripes but i imagine it would be easy.
What about when you have to paint the bulk of the car? Like the roof, pillars and rear 1/4's all at once cause they're all one piece? Doesn't the paint on the roof dry by the time you get done one side and then start on the other, or are you starting on the bottom of one side and working up across and down the other side of the car? Or does the light coats and sanding make it okay? I'm pretty much just wondering if you have any kind of a seam line on the top of the car. Lol, and I emailed a link to this thread to my brother, and he wants to do it to his rampage. It'd be a perfect candidate to try this out on, seeing as the roller job done by the previous owner is looking real bad these days.
i was wondering when someone would ask that question. well basically i do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at. then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe, that's where all the expirementing comes in to play
i can say i'm on 6 yrs and 35,000mi and counting on the orange 74 beetle
Just curious, what happens when you try rubbing compound? You mention its too rough. To me, it seems like an important step to eliminate from the finishing process. I know in my limited painting experience, if going from wet sanding directly to a machine glaze, the gloss would be knowhere near as deep as if I had used a rubbing compound first.
the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing, that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up, i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass, and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great
Shawn_at_USCT I'm going to give this a shot this weekend on my project car. In case anyone was wondering here's a pricelist from Lowes Home Improvement. This is an awesome thread.
Rustoleum $24.57 for all colors (1 gal)
Mineral Spirits $8.42
Foam brush w/ roller (4") $3.47
Foam brush refills (4") (2 pack) @ $3.47 (6 pack) @ $9.32
Flat foam brush (2").57 ea (3").74 (4").82
Roller tray (3 pack) $1.28
"Water" proof sandpaper (5 sheet pack) $2.97 all grits
I'll post before and after pics here or maybe I can get John to post some on the website. I'll also try to get dilution ratios if I remember at the time. Shawn_at_USCT
Keep in mind i know a little about painting, i've shoot a few cars with single stage enamel with professional results, but it's expensive and tedious.
i have sprayed a few cars in my garage with a single stage acrylic enamel and it's a pain, messy, stinks, ect... the tremclad is almost odorless and is really easy to work with.
since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start.
depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can.
prepping is 90% of the work, stripping the car, sanding, ect.....painting is overrated!!!
So if you have TIME, then i'd say go for it, the worst that could happen is that it does'nt turn out and your out $50, but if your paitient, and expriement with lets say just the trunk pannel and if you like it do the whole car, if not just get it done by someone else for $4000. i don't know about you guys, but i would rather spend the $4000 on other parts like getting the mechanics sorted out and new chrome, cause when u have really nice paint and crappy bumpers, door handles it just sticks out more.
- Get Materials aproximatly $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...):
- Get a can of tremclad (Canada, in US rustoleum or somthing like that) real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. make sure it's the new stuff like a enamal, or acrylic enamal. goes right over anything and doesntt react with any old paint, right over bondo, don't use any primer, just the paint it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear, very hard to scratch, but easy to buff.
- Warning!: don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week!!!
- Note:when i painted with the Tremclad i just use the paint, no primer, nothing, just the paint, right over bondo.
- Note: while not necessary for the paint to stick some people have found that primer can help to make the base consistent for a consistent color with no show through.
- Note: On a car i used to have i had it professionally painted 4 yrs after i painted it and they put a base/clear on it with no isues.
- Note: the paint is tough, like stove paint when it's done, i've spilt gas on it in like really hot weather, and it resists stone chips really well. i had a rock hit my hood so hard it sounded like someone thru a golfball at my car really hard, i did'nt even want to look, but there was no chip, just bit of dust at the impact sight. that paint is really good stuff.
- Note: i had to repaint a fender on the beetle like 2 yrs ago, so i just got a small can of paint 3 yrs later and the color match is exact.
- Note: thing i like about this paint ALOT is that there's no need for primer, primer sealer, ect.. it really simplifies the process. shooting a base clear or single stage acrylic enamel is a pain, u have "windows" to shoot each coat, and putting the primer sealer on, you have to shoot color within 30 mins or 15 days, man what if something goes wrong?
- Jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint.
- the tequnique is critical, u have to have a "feel" for how much to thin the paint and u have to use mineral spirits, not paint thinner like varsol.
- Get a can of tremclad (Canada, in US rustoleum or somthing like that) real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. make sure it's the new stuff like a enamal, or acrylic enamal. goes right over anything and doesntt react with any old paint, right over bondo, don't use any primer, just the paint it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear, very hard to scratch, but easy to buff.
- Prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow it to be painted over bare metal.
- i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200, finished with a 400,
- Thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker.
- Get out the roller and paint away,
- do 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car)
- The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running, and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass, wet sanding just makes it better, it all depends on how much time u have.
- Hint First you paint the surface, and then really lightly "skim" the surface with the weight of the roller only to remove any lines bubbles ect, then just leave it for a minute or two and you'll see it just "self levels" totally flat to glass.
- It does "self Level" on the sides just as it does on the flat level surfaces.
- wet sand the whole car (with 600)
- this paint dries FAST, so literally you can wetsand overnight. (but make sure it is completely dry before sanding)
- i did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing. using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up, so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy (dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks.
- 2 more coats
- wetsand ( with 800)
- 2 more final coats
- wetsand with about 1000-1500 grit to a totally smooth finish
- use a spray bottle and keep the paper really wet
- Using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound
- buff with a random orbit polisher using the cheapest turtle wax POLISHING compound it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white, allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!! NOT the rubbing compound, its' to harsh
- hint: when u wet sand the final coat, the paint looks flat, like velvet, if you take a rag soaked with mineral spirits and whipe a spot down that you just sanded, that's what it will look like buffed. if you buff and decide to paint again clean the area with mineral spirts so that and residue from the polishing compound is removed or the paint won't stick.
- Wax, done......
- do 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car)
Examples:
69chargeryeehaa's - Charger - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 71 VW Beetle - midnight blue metalic - sprayed on
i first painted a 85 honda crx at my cottage in 1 day, i had no money, i did like 3 coats with no sanding and it looked great, i should scan that old pic and show you!!!. The job only looks as good as the time and effort that you put into it. the paint is extreemly durable, think about it, it's used to paint over rusted metal on things like tractors, metal railings, ect... and stand the elements. it is formulated to do just that.
Questions
I wonder how well it would look if you did this roller method, then followed up by shooting a coat of clear over top of it? --70Cuda383
i probally would say it would turn out very nice. but the workability of the paint would end there, besides the paint buffs to mirror so i see no need for a clear coat. they have a clear coat in the tremclad brand made for the paint but i don't think it's nescessary. i reciently buffed out a huge scratch when a guy tried to jump me at a drive thru atm (long story!!!) and i florred it ran over his feet turning tires, and pinned him between the wall and my car. the whole rear quarter had a really bad scuff, maybe it was his teeth and the buttons on his jacket, anyways it buffed right out, with clear it would be hard to do that. so i would say there's no need for clear unless you really want a show car finish. -- 69chargeryeehaa
I could not even imagine how well it would turn out if you sprayed it with a HVLP gun and wet sanded and polished.
-- 69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg 1
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I know this is a messy copy paste but I hope to clean it up later.
What temp?
As far as temperature goes it really doesn’t matter, I did my 74 beetle in the dead of winter, it was like -20 deg Celsius, I had a portable heater in the garage and 2x 1500W flood lights, I was warm enough. The charger I did this past September in about 25 deg Celsius and it was really humid with no difference, where when I sprayed a single stage on the 71 beetle I had to use the proper temperature reducer. As far as getting this paint to stick, all I can say is that it is made to be painted on BARE and RUSTED metal. The stuff sticks to rubber, glass, anything, like sh*t on a blanket (if you have kids you'll know what I mean !!! lol). I have no issues or question in my mind that this stuff sticks like crazy to bare metal. I'm sure it would stick on epoxy primer if you sand it with 800 grit before. I have never had any reaction to anything that I’ve painted over, I’ve painted motorcycle gas tanks and plastic covers, 3 cars, over base clear, the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, no issues. I’ve painted over automotive primer on my 74 beetle where I had exposed metal and knew I would leave it exposed for a while and didn’t want it to rust. I painted right over bondo, where I had a few really minor scratches and dents that I couldn’t bang out, no issues. I had a drop of the paint on glass, it was really hard to get off, I was afraid to use a razor because it could scratch my new windshield so I used a credit card and it was really, really hard to get off. I painted the door jambs, under trunk lid, under hood, everything. Try one panel and see it if works, u have to experiment with it, it took a lot of trial and error for me to get the "technique" down pat. my car is by no means a show car, but I couldn’t justify a $5000 paint job after just buying the car for $11000, buying new bumpers, door handles, emblems, all rubber, windshield, brake booster, heater core, headliner, carpet, door panels, brakes, ect....I spent all my money on the aesthetics, and mechanics, not to mention the car. I kind of rushed the charger because I HAD to drive my dream car as soon as I could. My 74 beetle I really took my time with and it is and looks like a $5000 paint job. I used a foam brush to paint the jambs and tight spots, and just ran the foam roller over it to smooth it out. I used tremclad flat black in a spray can for the rear tail panel on the charger.
Here are a bunch of close up good high res pics I just took of the car and the supplies I used and a few other pics of the beetle’s I painted:
http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/?start=0
69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2
_______----------------------------------------------------
well basically i have the roller in one hand, and the foam "paint brush" (in the pics) in the other. you have to work fast because the paint becoms non workable in about 10 mins. so i do one pannel at a time. it goes quickly, takes about 1 hour for a coat on the whole car, i've done 2 coats in 1 day no issues, it dries fast. but for wet sanding i wait overnight. basically in the rain channels i would use the brush and cover it completely, then use the rounded end of the roller and go over it, it's hard to describe, u just have to be paitent and expirement on one pannel like the trunk lid and do the whole process and see if your happy, it's easy to bail the project with only having to re-do the trunklid if you can't handle it or have one of those "what the f*&k am i doing" moments!!!. I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat. Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!!
69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2
The shine on the cars (both the orange bug and the Charger)does not seem that deep. Maybe its the angle of the pictures...Would you say the shine is every bit as deep as any sprayed car you've seen? I'm not trying to be critical, just want to know what I may be getting myself into here. I still think its a great idea and give you a lot of credit for trying it and more importantly, making it work.
i would not compare the shine to a base clear paint job, but i would compare it to a good single stage acrylic enamel paint job. plus the more you buff the shinyer it gets, that's where i got lazy, but i plan to buff and wetsand more when i have the free time. i did the charger in 3 days, like i said i was ancy to get it done, doing the pee-pee dance dying to drive it so i rushed it a bit. in the sun it looks amazing, at night it looks perfect, in the shade you can see some flaws but i was not looking for a "perfect" paint job. the beetle however i did over the winter and it really looks good, no complaints. 3 weeks after i bought the charger i was driving it, it was totally stripped, re-did the interior, all the mechanics, and body work. it would have been done sooner if i would have got all the parts i ordered eariler. looking back i don't regret it at all, it was easy and got me on the road fast and cheep. I can allways re-do the paint anytime.
The paint on the car is not thick at all. 4 coats of paint that i sprayed on the 71 beetle midnight blue car (1 initial tack coat, 2 medium, and 1 flash coat to get the metalic uniform)used just over a can of paint with a HVLP gun on a beetle (they don't get smaller than that!!!) plus take into acount that about 1/3 is reducer. i used about 3/4 of a can on the charger, the paint is really thin. like i said eairler, you only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats. The charger is at least twice the surface area of the beetle, the paint on the 71 beetle is thicker than the paint on the charger and the 74 orange beetle. regarding the shine, if i spent 2 more days wetsanding and buffing the shine would be that of any professional single stage paint job on the charger. that being said like i mentioned earlier it depends on what YOU want out of the paint job, the thread topic is "paint job on a budget" and that is exactly what it is, plus i'm not paranoid about doing a dukes of hazzard drift on a dirt road and worrying about my precious paint. the car gets driven alot, and hard, every weekend to the cottage (400km round trip) and it gets stone chips, ect...so i'm not worried.
i'm not here to argue about the adhesion properties of the paint, the quality of the paint, what it really is, blah, blah, blah...i can say the paint IS MADE TO STICK TO BARE METAL, WOOD, FIBERGLASS, RUSTED METAL, CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, GRASS, GERBILS, basically anything (read the can). it's real easy to work with, does'nt smell at all (all you really smell is the mineral spirits used to thin the paint) plus i have had no reactions with underlying paint in any way shape of form on all the stuff i painted with it period. i would say it sticks roughly at least twice as good as any high quality single stage paint\primer\primer sealer out there. I've painted it in cold conditions and hot humid conditions with no issues. No fish eyes, peel, nothing. i've painted over it with single stage and BC/CC with NO ISSUES. The paint seems very inert, not prone to any of the stuff that auto paint is prone to. I have used the paint alot and can say it has not peeled, flaked off, nothing on anything i've used it on. Hell i even still have a 71 Kawasaki motorcycle i painted 15 years ago over the original paint and it still looks great.
TonyS451-there is no need for primer with this paint, if u have to use primer because you can't sleep at night then do so if u must, but trust me your just wasting your time. Automotive paints that are made for cars such as single stage or BC/CC are made to be sprayed, and NEED reducers/hardners to cure and dry properly, it's critical that they be used correctly, there is even different reducers depending on what temperatures u are shooting the paint in, so i would not compare this paint to auto paint nor try to roller auto paint. I have sprayed several cars, the 71 beetle in the pics as mentioned before was painted single stage acrylic enamel in my garage with a home made ventelation system, and i wetted down the floor when i was painting to keep dust down, and used a tack cloth ALOT. That car came out perfect, very hugh quality paint BUT it was a major pain in the butt, taping, dust, smell, washing paint out of my hair and nose for a week!!!!
well it just goes by "feel", theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker. if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run, but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin. and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.
There is no way i would try to roll on BC/CC it would definetly not work. that paint is ment to be atomized when sprayed, and you could never thin it down to the point where it does not run and is thin enough to apply. plus it would dry too fast with the correct reducers and flash over too quick. i think it would be impossible. when u just paint and sand, you're going to be sanding too much, and the paint is hard resulting in waves in the paint unless u sand really consistently, so the key is to lay it on thin and sand as little as possible, also when the paint layer is thin and the paint is thinned properly it "self levels" it's like bondo, u mix it up and it's just in a blob, let it sit for a few minutes and it flattens out, thats just what the paint does.
hope that helps
also i assume this only works for solid colors. have you tried doing stripes or anything?
yes, metalics are out of the picture here, no i haven't tried doing stripes but i imagine it would be easy.
What about when you have to paint the bulk of the car? Like the roof, pillars and rear 1/4's all at once cause they're all one piece? Doesn't the paint on the roof dry by the time you get done one side and then start on the other, or are you starting on the bottom of one side and working up across and down the other side of the car? Or does the light coats and sanding make it okay? I'm pretty much just wondering if you have any kind of a seam line on the top of the car. Lol, and I emailed a link to this thread to my brother, and he wants to do it to his rampage. It'd be a perfect candidate to try this out on, seeing as the roller job done by the previous owner is looking real bad these days.
i was wondering when someone would ask that question. well basically i do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at. then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe, that's where all the expirementing comes in to play
i can say i'm on 6 yrs and 35,000mi and counting on the orange 74 beetle
Just curious, what happens when you try rubbing compound? You mention its too rough. To me, it seems like an important step to eliminate from the finishing process. I know in my limited painting experience, if going from wet sanding directly to a machine glaze, the gloss would be knowhere near as deep as if I had used a rubbing compound first.
the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing, that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up, i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass, and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great
Shawn_at_USCT I'm going to give this a shot this weekend on my project car. In case anyone was wondering here's a pricelist from Lowes Home Improvement. This is an awesome thread.
Rustoleum $24.57 for all colors (1 gal)
Mineral Spirits $8.42
Foam brush w/ roller (4") $3.47
Foam brush refills (4") (2 pack) @ $3.47 (6 pack) @ $9.32
Flat foam brush (2").57 ea (3").74 (4").82
Roller tray (3 pack) $1.28
"Water" proof sandpaper (5 sheet pack) $2.97 all grits
I'll post before and after pics here or maybe I can get John to post some on the website. I'll also try to get dilution ratios if I remember at the time. Shawn_at_USCT
