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Rollering Interlux Brightside Polyurethane Paint
Compiling many posts by Marq dealing with Brightside paint in progress
Step #1
a) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.
b) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car.
c) Coat #1 thinned 10% with #333. No need to wet sand this step.
Step #2
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents that may have fallen on your first layer of paint while it was curing.
b) Coat #2 thinned 10% with #333.
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
Step #3
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #3 thinned 5% with #333. No need to wet sand this step unless there are any visual defects that you want to address. If so...wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly.
Step 4
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #4 thinned 5% with #333 or straight from the can ( depending on your confidence level at this point ).
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 800 or 1000 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
a ) if you have successfully laid down a smooth and glossy final coat of paint... you might wish to stop at that point and live with that finish for a month. It will give the paint time to reach maximum hardness... but more importantly you will save yourself all the work of wetsanding, compounding and waxing. But please note that YOU CAN go to wet sanding and compounding within 24 hours of that final coat of paint being applied.
b ) if your final coat of Brightside gives you anything less then what you were hoping for... then breakout out the wet sanding and go from 1000, to 1500 to 2000. Then go for a compounding with the Turtle Wax compound product to rejuvenate the shine that was lost during the wetsanding. Once you have reached that level of shine from the compounding... go to the waxing stage. As previously noted... I had my best luck with Meguiars pure Carnuba and Meguiars High Tech wax. The 'High Tech' wax is a polymer and so it was more successful at giving the paint a deeper and darker look. The Carnuba wax was better at developing a high gloss.
COMPOUNDING
Step #1
a) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.
b) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car.
c) Coat #1 thinned 10% with #333. No need to wet sand this step.
d) Let paint cure for 24 hours.
Step #2
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents that may have fallen on your first layer of paint while it was curing.
b) Coat #2 thinned 10% with #333.
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.
Step #3
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #3 thinned 5% with #333. No need to wet sand this step unless there are any visual defects that you want to address. If so...wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly.
f) Let sit for 24 hours .
Step 4
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #4 thinned 5% with #333 or straight from the can ( depending on your confidence level at this point ).
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 800 or 1000 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.
You should at this stage be able to do a 1500 wet sanding and then a 2000 wet sanding - with thorough washings and rinsing at the end of each wet sand session.
The body 'should' have a uniform dull shine at this point with no patches of 'shiny' in the otherwise dulled but somewhat shiney surface.
How long between painting and wetsanding? - Always at least 24 hours... the manufacturer recommends 18 hours... but times will vary due to temperatures, humidity, etc.
How long between wetsanding and painting? The body needs to be thoroughly washed down after the wet sanding. So 24 hours is a good rule of thumb to ensure that no moisture is left in the roughened paint.
How long between wetsanding and polishing? When you get to the final step four.. you will be doing a series of wet sandings, increasing the grit with each sanding. Then you will have to again give the car a thorough wash down. So again it is worthwhile to let the car dry for 24 hours if for no other reason than to give yourself a break and so that you can be 'fresh and wide awake' when you begin the polishing stage.
How long between polishing and waxing? Once you complete your polishing to a level of shine and gloss that is acceptable to you... you can proceed to the wax stage almost immediately to seal up all the work you did.
Well... each day brings a new learning discovery... and hopefully we can share what we learn about working with Brightside to help others out....
a ) When working with Brightside.... you are suppose to roll on the paint... and then go over that area with a foam brush gently to make the bubbles disappear. Today I must have looked like a mad man because what I was doing was :
a ) rolling on the paint
b ) using a 3 inch foam brush to float over it and magically pop the bubbles
c ) then using a second 3 inch brush to go over the area and lightly assist the paint to level.
The way things work out... the first brushing of the rolled paint tends to pick up paint on the roller. Yet by the time I use the clean second foam brush it is able to glide over the paint and enhance the levels. So if you don't mind looking foolish with one roller and two foam brushes in your hand... this technique may help you get even smoother results.
b ) Today was very hot and humid. I was noticing that after about 20 minutes of painting, the paint in the tray was applying differently on to the car. I did not have as much 'grace time' to work the bubbles and then do the leveling pass with the second roller. It would appear that the solvent in the paint was evaporating fairly quickly due to the hot working conditions in my garage today.
Now... this Brightside paint uses M. E. K. (METHYL ETHYL KETONE as a thinner.
They say that Ketone is very similar to Acetone but with a much slower evaporation rate and that it can be used for the same applications as Acetone. But from what I am seeing in very hot working conditions... this Ketone stuff is evaporating fairly quickly...
NOW... by accident I decided to try cutting the Brightside paint with some of the 'regular' mineral spirits that I had left from my Tremclad experiment. It works and the paint acts just like it is suppose to with the bubbles, the magic wipe of the first foam brush to pop bubbles and the level assisting wipe with the second foam brush.
So the point of this bit of exploration and discovery may be of assistance to anyone applying Brightside in very hot working conditions. You can cut the paint with about 5% to 10% Ketone OR mineral spirits and you will have a little more 'working time' for applying and perfecting each layer that you are applying.
c ) The third discovery today is a way to detect when the surface that you have just rolled is drying too fast and that you should touch up the paint in the tray with a little mineral spirit or Ketone...
When the paint is drying too fast because of the heat... you will notice that when you drag your foam brush over the paint ( to pop the bubbles or to assist in leveling ) that the foam brush will 'stutter' as you drag it over the paint. It is almost like the paint grabs the brush, lets it go... grabs it.. lets it go ... and the faster the stuttering of the foam brush the sooner you had better quit dragging the brush over the paint or it will leave a record of the 'stuttering' in the paint you are working on.
If this 'stuttering' happens to you... do not try to rework or rewet the area to remedy it. Simply stop working on that spot. There is a good chance that it may 'self level' itself. However, if when it dries you can see where the 'stuttering' took place, just hit it with the wet sanding to remove the 'stuttering.
If you rewet the area by reloading your roller or your foam brush on that area... you will just exagerate the problem and it 'may' lead to too much paint on that spot ( which you are going to have to wet sand out anyhow ).
The only problem with using highly diluted Brightside is that it will obviously take more coats to get full coverage... and you will need to revert to just straight uncut Brightside for the final layer in order to get the maximum shine and gloss on that final layer. ( Highly thinned Brightside doesn't produce anything near the high gloss of the unthinned product ).
Now... if you were talking about using the roll and tip with the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint the same rules probably apply. It is best to pass the magic brush over the bubbles as soon after applying the paint. Since the coating of Tremclad/Rustoleum is pretty thin it should only take a very light passing of the brush.
I have been doing some additional reading about the 'roll and tip' method used by boater and the 'very best' results that they obtain seem to be one of the following two methods :
a ) use your one favorite 4" china bristle paint brush... and between each panel put it in the mineral spirit or thinning fluid to clean the brush... or
b ) if you are using the disposable foam brushes... try to use three brushes... one for each side of the car and one for the hood and trunk.
The biggest problem the boaters find with the 'roll and tip' is that the 'tipping brush' tends to load up with paint.
If you are only using one tipping brush and if it takes about one hour to completely walk around the car rolling and tipping... then the paint on the 'tipping brush' could conceivably be up to one hour old on the brush by the time you hit the last panel.
So by using a number of fresh brushes OR keeping your one good brush constantly cleaned between doing panels you can avoid the problem of 'paint build up' on the brush having an adverse effect on the effective smoothing of the coating you are popping bubbles on.
I just thought of some more 'secret' hints that I stumbled across while using the Brightside paint and it they are equally applicable for the Tremclad/Rustoleum guys.
Discovery ONE : If your paint on a panel goes to h*ll... try a fluid soaked roller...
While working on the trunk lid things went bad. The paint started drying too quickly and started getting tacky. I tried to work the paint with extra rolling to try to level it out.. but it just got worse. I walked away from the car mad as h*ll because I figured I was going to have sand the trunk down and start it over ( when the rest of the car was already basically finished. I guess you can guess how pizzed off I was.
So I got mad and I figured that since it was screwed up there was nothing I could do that would make it worst. So I had a little light bulb go off in my head. I went to my paint tray and I dumped a ton of brushing fluid in with the remaining little bit of paint that was still in the tray. I would say the mixture was about 70% brushing fluid ( ketone ) and only 30% paint.
I lathered up the roller with a full load of this mixture and I started reworking the trunk lid.
MIRACLE UPON MIRACLE.. the paint on the trunk lid began flattening and spreading beautifully. This saturation of brushing fluid was able to save the day and the trunk lid turned out perfect.
So I mention this story just in case one of the panels you are working on goes to h*ll in a hand cart. Curse at it for a minute and then try a highly saturated roller to try to remedy what might appear to be a lost cause.
I suspect this 'last ditch' suicide effort might also work for the Tremclad/Rustoleum applicators as well. If the paint on the panel you are working on appears to be suddenly welling up and turning to orange peel... or if the roller marks are too visible and not levelling out... or if the surface has gotten too tacky before you had worked the surface with your roller to the point where you were satisfied... this might work for you to save you from having to sand down a pile of your work..
DISCOVERY TWO : If the paint on a panel goes to h*ll - reach for a rag as a last ditch measure
When I was originally applying the Tremclad paint to my car... I had a similar problem occur on the front driver's fender. I had just added a layer of Tremclad. Right before my eyes I could see that everything on that panel was going to h*ll... it looked like an instant case of severe orange peel. I cursed... I swore... I walked away knowing that I would have resand that panel down again and basically restart it.
So I decided to quit for the evening... because I was sooooo pizzed off at myself. I took a fresh cloth and soaked it with mineral spirits and started to clean my hands. Then that little light bulb went off in my head again. I took the mineral soaked cloth over to the panel and began WIPING IT DOWN in long steady swipes. It took the crappy layer off and left me with the previous layer - in perfect shape and ready to just dry out and repaint it.
Sometimes the greatest discoveries are done totally by accident or from sheer frustration...
DISCOVERY THREE : Two rollers work better than a roller and a foam or bristle brush
This probably ranks right up there with my other accidental discovery of using two rollers... one to roll the fresh paint and a fresh one to just roll over the fresh paint to level it, pop bubbles and work out any track marks left by the 'painting' roller.
DISCOVERY FOUR : Don't bother with 6" foam rollers
Ooooh... one last tidbit of info that I thought I would share. My experiment with the six inch high density foam roller was basically a failure. Although it seemed in theory to be better at laying down paint... it turns out that the FOUR inch high density foam roller gives you far better control. The only value you might find with the six inch roller is to use it as the secondary roller ( as described above ) to go over the paint laid down by the FOUR inch roller. But frankly you might as well use the four inch roller for the painting and the secondary rolling. I truly believe that the dual rolling works out better than the roller and brush method...
Well... each day brings a new learning discovery... and hopefully we can share what we learn about working with Brightside to help others out....
a ) When working with Brightside.... you are suppose to roll on the paint... and then go over that area with a foam brush gently to make the bubbles disappear. Today I must have looked like a mad man because what I was doing was :
a ) rolling on the paint
b ) using a 3 inch foam brush to float over it and magically pop the bubbles
c ) then using a second 3 inch brush to go over the area and lightly assist the paint to level.
The way things work out... the first brushing of the rolled paint tends to pick up paint on the roller. Yet by the time I use the clean second foam brush it is able to glide over the paint and enhance the levels. So if you don't mind looking foolish with one roller and two foam brushes in your hand... this technique may help you get even smoother results.
b ) Today was very hot and humid. I was noticing that after about 20 minutes of painting, the paint in the tray was applying differently on to the car. I did not have as much 'grace time' to work the bubbles and then do the leveling pass with the second roller. It would appear that the solvent in the paint was evaporating fairly quickly due to the hot working conditions in my garage today.
Now... this Brightside paint uses M. E. K. (METHYL ETHYL KETONE as a thinner.
They say that Ketone is very similar to Acetone but with a much slower evaporation rate and that it can be used for the same applications as Acetone. But from what I am seeing in very hot working conditions... this Ketone stuff is evaporating fairly quickly...
NOW... by accident I decided to try cutting the Brightside paint with some of the 'regular' mineral spirits that I had left from my Tremclad experiment. It works and the paint acts just like it is suppose to with the bubbles, the magic wipe of the first foam brush to pop bubbles and the level assisting wipe with the second foam brush.
So the point of this bit of exploration and discovery may be of assistance to anyone applying Brightside in very hot working conditions. You can cut the paint with about 5% to 10% Ketone OR mineral spirits and you will have a little more 'working time' for applying and perfecting each layer that you are applying.
c ) The third discovery today is a way to detect when the surface that you have just rolled is drying too fast and that you should touch up the paint in the tray with a little mineral spirit or Ketone...
When the paint is drying too fast because of the heat... you will notice that when you drag your foam brush over the paint ( to pop the bubbles or to assist in leveling ) that the foam brush will 'stutter' as you drag it over the paint. It is almost like the paint grabs the brush, lets it go... grabs it.. lets it go ... and the faster the stuttering of the foam brush the sooner you had better quit dragging the brush over the paint or it will leave a record of the 'stuttering' in the paint you are working on.
If this 'stuttering' happens to you... do not try to rework or rewet the area to remedy it. Simply stop working on that spot. There is a good chance that it may 'self level' itself. However, if when it dries you can see where the 'stuttering' took place, just hit it with the wet sanding to remove the 'stuttering.
If you rewet the area by reloading your roller or your foam brush on that area... you will just exagerate the problem and it 'may' lead to too much paint on that spot ( which you are going to have to wet sand out anyhow ).
The only problem with using highly diluted Brightside is that it will obviously take more coats to get full coverage... and you will need to revert to just straight uncut Brightside for the final layer in order to get the maximum shine and gloss on that final layer. ( Highly thinned Brightside doesn't produce anything near the high gloss of the unthinned product ).
Now... if you were talking about using the roll and tip with the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint the same rules probably apply. It is best to pass the magic brush over the bubbles as soon after applying the paint. Since the coating of Tremclad/Rustoleum is pretty thin it should only take a very light passing of the brush.
I have been doing some additional reading about the 'roll and tip' method used by boater and the 'very best' results that they obtain seem to be one of the following two methods :
a ) use your one favorite 4" china bristle paint brush... and between each panel put it in the mineral spirit or thinning fluid to clean the brush... or
b ) if you are using the disposable foam brushes... try to use three brushes... one for each side of the car and one for the hood and trunk.
The biggest problem the boaters find with the 'roll and tip' is that the 'tipping brush' tends to load up with paint.
If you are only using one tipping brush and if it takes about one hour to completely walk around the car rolling and tipping... then the paint on the 'tipping brush' could conceivably be up to one hour old on the brush by the time you hit the last panel.
So by using a number of fresh brushes OR keeping your one good brush constantly cleaned between doing panels you can avoid the problem of 'paint build up' on the brush having an adverse effect on the effective smoothing of the coating you are popping bubbles on.
I just thought of some more 'secret' hints that I stumbled across while using the Brightside paint and it they are equally applicable for the Tremclad/Rustoleum guys.
Discovery ONE : If your paint on a panel goes to h*ll... try a fluid soaked roller...
While working on the trunk lid things went bad. The paint started drying too quickly and started getting tacky. I tried to work the paint with extra rolling to try to level it out.. but it just got worse. I walked away from the car mad as h*ll because I figured I was going to have sand the trunk down and start it over ( when the rest of the car was already basically finished. I guess you can guess how pizzed off I was.
So I got mad and I figured that since it was screwed up there was nothing I could do that would make it worst. So I had a little light bulb go off in my head. I went to my paint tray and I dumped a ton of brushing fluid in with the remaining little bit of paint that was still in the tray. I would say the mixture was about 70% brushing fluid ( ketone ) and only 30% paint.
I lathered up the roller with a full load of this mixture and I started reworking the trunk lid.
MIRACLE UPON MIRACLE.. the paint on the trunk lid began flattening and spreading beautifully. This saturation of brushing fluid was able to save the day and the trunk lid turned out perfect.
So I mention this story just in case one of the panels you are working on goes to h*ll in a hand cart. Curse at it for a minute and then try a highly saturated roller to try to remedy what might appear to be a lost cause.
I suspect this 'last ditch' suicide effort might also work for the Tremclad/Rustoleum applicators as well. If the paint on the panel you are working on appears to be suddenly welling up and turning to orange peel... or if the roller marks are too visible and not levelling out... or if the surface has gotten too tacky before you had worked the surface with your roller to the point where you were satisfied... this might work for you to save you from having to sand down a pile of your work..
DISCOVERY TWO : If the paint on a panel goes to h*ll - reach for a rag as a last ditch measure
When I was originally applying the Tremclad paint to my car... I had a similar problem occur on the front driver's fender. I had just added a layer of Tremclad. Right before my eyes I could see that everything on that panel was going to h*ll... it looked like an instant case of severe orange peel. I cursed... I swore... I walked away knowing that I would have resand that panel down again and basically restart it.
So I decided to quit for the evening... because I was sooooo pizzed off at myself. I took a fresh cloth and soaked it with mineral spirits and started to clean my hands. Then that little light bulb went off in my head again. I took the mineral soaked cloth over to the panel and began WIPING IT DOWN in long steady swipes. It took the crappy layer off and left me with the previous layer - in perfect shape and ready to just dry out and repaint it.
Sometimes the greatest discoveries are done totally by accident or from sheer frustration...
DISCOVERY THREE : Two rollers work better than a roller and a foam or bristle brush
This probably ranks right up there with my other accidental discovery of using two rollers... one to roll the fresh paint and a fresh one to just roll over the fresh paint to level it, pop bubbles and work out any track marks left by the 'painting' roller.
DISCOVERY FOUR : Don't bother with 6" foam rollers
Ooooh... one last tidbit of info that I thought I would share. My experiment with the six inch high density foam roller was basically a failure. Although it seemed in theory to be better at laying down paint... it turns out that the FOUR inch high density foam roller gives you far better control. The only value you might find with the six inch roller is to use it as the secondary roller ( as described above ) to go over the paint laid down by the FOUR inch roller. But frankly you might as well use the four inch roller for the painting and the secondary rolling. I truly believe that the dual rolling works out better than the roller and brush method...
a ) if you have successfully laid down a smooth and glossy final coat of paint... you might wish to stop at that point and live with that finish for a month. It will give the paint time to reach maximum hardness... but more importantly you will save yourself all the work of wetsanding, compounding and waxing. But please note that YOU CAN go to wet sanding and compounding within 24 hours of that final coat of paint being applied.
b ) if your final coat of Brightside gives you anything less then what you were hoping for... then breakout out the wet sanding and go from 1000, to 1500 to 2000. Then go for a compounding with the Turtle Wax compound product to rejuvenate the shine that was lost during the wetsanding. Once you have reached that level of shine from the compounding... go to the waxing stage. As previously noted... I had my best luck with Meguiars pure Carnuba and Meguiars High Tech wax. The 'High Tech' wax is a polymer and so it was more successful at giving the paint a deeper and darker look. The Carnuba wax was better at developing a high gloss.
COMPOUNDING
Exit, buffing with an agressive enough compound can do all the work wet sanding would. If you have only a little very even orange peel, buffing may very well be the way to go. I once had an insurance company have one of my cars fixed, one that I had bc/cc'd sanded and buffed. The first time they tried to give it back to me "fixed", the orange peel looked terrible (compared to a near perfect paint job, probably was on par with a stock paint job). I told them to fix it right and don't call me again until it was really fixed. When I finally picked it up, they had done a nice job with the finish. They told me that they didn't send it back to the paint shop, they just had it buffed out. I wouldn't use the turtle was buffing compound that charger69 had been talking about. There is nothing wrong with that stuff, but it is intended to be the final buff before wax. Like I said, I have had great experience with 3M compounds from NAPA. It's going to put the paint job over the $50 figure though.
There is one thing I want to clear up, because I'm not sure everyone knows the difference. Generally there are 3 types of pastes we use to finish a paint job. 1st is a rubbing compound, 2nd is a polishing compound, and 3rd is a wax. Rubbing and polishing compounds don't contain any wax, their purpose is to remove material from your finish. The work at different rates, based on how agressive thier abrasives are. Rubbing compound is for removing material quickly (scratches, light orange peel), it has harsh abrasives in it. Polishing compound is for bringing a shine to dull paint, it contains mild abrasives. The rubbing compound (harsh) will leave your paint dull, but not scratched. The polishing compound (mild) will take that dull finish and turn it into a shine. If you skip the rubbing compound after you wet sand, you will spend a very long time buffing (very safe, slow method), otherwise (if you stop early) you will end up with a foggy, scratched, and mildly shiny finish. In the later case you would have a better shine if you didn't wet sand, but your finish would have some orange peel.
Wax is entirely different then rubbing and polishing compounds. Wax leaves a shiny protective film on top of your paint. Although I believe charger69 when he says waxing his paint immediately after finishing didn't hurt the paint, I don't believe it is the BEST way to do it. The best way to do it (my opinion) would be to wait the month or so until the paint is completely hard before you sand and buff. I don't think this is the only way to get an excellent finish (obviously by charger69 and Exits buffed red), but I think it may be the way to get the best possible finish.
There are many different 'grits' of rubbing and polishing compounds. If you stay with a line of products, you can be relatively sure you are going with the right progression. One thing to watch our for, if you seem to be getting a poor results with one step of buffing, it is probably because you stopped the prevoius step too early. You can continue with the current grit for a long time to make up for that, or you can go back and finish the previous step.
However i completely agree with all your statments, you obviously have alot of expirence in the buffing field, but i'm just trying to suggest the best, eaisiest, cheapest, most realiable way to buff tremclad/rustoleum; although your advise is dead on regarding auto paints be it single stage, or BC/CC. It's twice as eaiser to cut the paint after 1 day, if you wait more it would just take alot more time to buff, and i mean alot. Of course this is just advice from my expirence, but rubbing coumpound combined with a ele buffer would just burn the paint really quick, even after a month of drying time, i found waxing the paint right after buffing almost makes the shine permenant, and i do have the longterm results to prove it!!!! otherwise excellent advice on buffing for the more "advanced" users.
Okay. Cheapie, cheapo, cheap. Let me also be clear that I have no reservations about spending a little more for better results. My time is valuable too... and I am considering investing in a nice DA buffer like Marq has done, and maybe going with a "Pro" compound such as System One (I like the idea of one compound that does everything instead of 2 or 3). I guess any way that I look at it I'm way overbudget, but still thousands less than having it done at a paint shop. The learning curve applies to purchases, too. I don't want to get suckered into buying an expensive product whose advertising makes it sound great only to be disappointed by ultimate results... any System One users out there?
So what you're seeing that the paint itself is polishing well but you haven't levelled the surface of your paint. go ahead and use a harder rubber sanding block and try to stay off the edges of the block. what you can do while wetsanding is to have a squeegee of some sort and just swipe dry a section every now and then. what you should see with the use of a block is spots of dull (matte) finish and spots of shiny finish. so you're abrading away the bumps and brushmarks and NOT abrading the low spots (valleys) of the bumps.
keep going until you squeegee off a section and it is solidly matte finish. until you get to that stage you will only polish the orange peel or brush marks to a shiny surface rather than really getting that flat finish you like. don't be afraid to start with a lower grit paper to cut down the bumps. you're going to have to remove that paint either way, so using 2000 gt only wastes more of your time. you just have to be careful not to cut through. so use 800 or something until the shiny spots are getting smaller. once the shiny spots are almost done then switch to different less aggresive grades of paper.
go from 800 > 1000/1200 > 1500 > 2000 > even 3000 if you're ambitious. but what you need to do at each stage is make sure you're sanding off the marks from the previous grade of sandpaper. with enough experience you'll start to see what that means.
when you polish, you could use a porter cable but i recently bought a makita ro6040 for detailing which has a forced rotation mode along with it's random orbital action. it cuts faster. you'd want to get at least some decent foam pads from a good detail supply house (properautocare, autogeeks) etc. i'd recommend a yellow cutting pad and then perhaps a medium pad. some manufacturers have them as orange powerpads or whatnot, but each manufacturer uses different color scheme. together with a diminishing abrasive polish like the poorboys, 3m, meguiars or menzerna powergloss/intensive polish and final polish you should get a mirror finish.
the only reason why i reccommend the turtle wax polishing coumpound is because it yeilds a awesome shine without any chance of burning thru the paint, let's face it, most of these people trying this method are painting virgins, and to throw in buffing, it's a bit too much. buffing is a art in itself, and takes years of practice. if someone wants to do a paintjob themselves, and have little expirience, then if they follow my steps they will most likely be able to pull off a nice job. i have alot expirence in buffing, wetsanding and cutting new paint, for the tremclad/rustoleum process, waiting a month does nothing, the paint flashes in 1 day, after that it just gets harder but from my expirence does not "vent" after 1 day. i wax immedieatly after buffing, wait about 1 day for dry time, in the sun preferably, and then straight to wetsand and buff.
However i completely agree with all your statments, you obviously have alot of expirence in the buffing field, but i'm just trying to suggest the best, eaisiest, cheapest, most realiable way to buff tremclad/rustoleum; although your advise is dead on regarding auto paints be it single stage, or BC/CC. It's twice as eaiser to cut the paint after 1 day, if you wait more it would just take alot more time to buff, and i mean alot. Of course this is just advice from my expirence, but rubbing coumpound combined with a ele buffer would just burn the paint really quick, even after a month of drying time, i found waxing the paint right after buffing almost makes the shine permenant, and i do have the longterm results to prove it!!!! otherwise excellent advice on buffing for the more "advanced" users.
This may be music to my ears. It's been a few weeks since my last post. My test piece has been a hood, and I'm painting with black Brightside. I've been having a hard time with the wetsanding.... inevitably I end up sanding through to metal on high edges. Another frustration is my sandpaper suctioning down to the panel, inhibiting the sanding motion, or paper sticking to the wet panel instead of the sanding block. It also seems like I'm using up the sandpaper so fast that I spend more time changing paper and loading up the block than I do wetsanding. I think I'm doing something wrong. I've been getting better, but I'm kind of getting burned out on working on the same panel without getting it finished to satisfaction. 1000-1500-2000 or 1200-1500-2000.
I've done what I hope is to be my final coat of paint, and I really didn't have much orange peel. I like the roller process, and each time I screw up my attempt at wetsanding, it gives me a chance to practice rolling. I will have to touch up a couple tiny spots along edges, but I'd prefer not to re-coat the entire panel because I'd be rendering moot (again) all of the wetsanding I've already invested.
So, if the rubbing compound can be done with the cheap buffer in lieu of major wetsanding, I'd like to consider this method. ...Which brings me now to the Turtle Wax (paste) Polish. I tried this on my 2000-wetsanded finish, and I was unable to come up with the "gun finish" gloss that I had before wetsanding. Let me be very clear about this, the Brightside black is ***GLOSSY*** straight out of the can! It really looks awesome. But no matter how long I spent with my cheap 6" random-orbit electric buffer with a brand new terry bonnet, I get a hazy gloss, not that awesome shine I had prior to wetsanding. I know, I know... 69Charger says to spend a LONG time with the buffer and polish... and I really did. About two hours. One spot especially so. Lots of polish. Plenty of water. But dang, I'm not gettin' that GLOSS! So would I be able to utilize *less* wetsanding, add the step of rubbing compound (cheapo Turtle brand? actually I have a little Meguire's in a tube already) with the terry on the cheapie polisher, then go to cheapie polish? And get that GLOSS??
Okay. Cheapie, cheapo, cheap. Let me also be clear that I have no reservations about spending a little more for better results. My time is valuable too... and I am considering investing in a nice DA buffer like Marq has done, and maybe going with a "Pro" compound such as System One (I like the idea of one compound that does everything instead of 2 or 3). I guess any way that I look at it I'm way overbudget, but still thousands less than having it done at a paint shop. The learning curve applies to purchases, too. I don't want to get suckered into buying an expensive product whose advertising makes it sound great only to be disappointed by ultimate results... any System One users out there?
So what you're seeing that the paint itself is polishing well but you haven't levelled the surface of your paint. go ahead and use a harder rubber sanding block and try to stay off the edges of the block. what you can do while wetsanding is to have a squeegee of some sort and just swipe dry a section every now and then. what you should see with the use of a block is spots of dull (matte) finish and spots of shiny finish. so you're abrading away the bumps and brushmarks and NOT abrading the low spots (valleys) of the bumps.
keep going until you squeegee off a section and it is solidly matte finish. until you get to that stage you will only polish the orange peel or brush marks to a shiny surface rather than really getting that flat finish you like. don't be afraid to start with a lower grit paper to cut down the bumps. you're going to have to remove that paint either way, so using 2000 gt only wastes more of your time. you just have to be careful not to cut through. so use 800 or something until the shiny spots are getting smaller. once the shiny spots are almost done then switch to different less aggresive grades of paper.
go from 800 > 1000/1200 > 1500 > 2000 > even 3000 if you're ambitious. but what you need to do at each stage is make sure you're sanding off the marks from the previous grade of sandpaper. with enough experience you'll start to see what that means.
when you polish, you could use a porter cable but i recently bought a makita ro6040 for detailing which has a forced rotation mode along with it's random orbital action. it cuts faster. you'd want to get at least some decent foam pads from a good detail supply house (properautocare, autogeeks) etc. i'd recommend a yellow cutting pad and then perhaps a medium pad. some manufacturers have them as orange powerpads or whatnot, but each manufacturer uses different color scheme. together with a diminishing abrasive polish like the poorboys, 3m, meguiars or menzerna powergloss/intensive polish and final polish you should get a mirror finish.
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JLPicard |
Latest page update: made by JLPicard
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Keyword tags:
Brightside
Interlux
Polyurethane
More Info: links to this page
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| Started By | Thread Subject | Replies | Last Post | ||
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| Anonymous | DAILY DRIVER | 1 | Apr 27 2009, 10:15 PM EDT by Anonymous | ||
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Thread started: Apr 16 2009, 1:38 AM EDT
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what if i drive the car between coats? bad?
cause i cant seem to find the time to do it unless i am able to still drive the thing around. PLEASE GIVE ME FEEDBACk |
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| Anonymous | Interlux PolyUrethane | 0 | Sep 7 2007, 12:27 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||
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Thread started: Sep 7 2007, 12:27 AM EDT
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I am getting ready to paint a 13 year old black Jeep Wrangler using rollers and Blue Water Topside PolyUrethane Enamel, Gloss Black (its a supposed to be a fairly durable boat paint).
Am I right that the ratio of thinner to paint is substantially smaller with the Interlux versus TremClad/Rustoleum? That is, 1 part thinner to 9 parts Interlux versus 1 part thinner: 1 part Tremclad/Rustoelum? I just didn't want to "over-thin" the Polyurethane I am using in error. Thanks for posting this piece! |
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| Anonymous | prep | 1 | Aug 30 2006, 10:33 AM EDT by JLPicard | ||
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Thread started: Aug 25 2006, 2:39 AM EDT
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will brighside paint over bare metal without primer? what about plastic or urethane pieces?
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Showing 3 of 3 threads for this page
