Car Painting - Recently Updated Pages

Harrison's Notes

harrisonts — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:19:30 CST

Wetpaint is a ridiculous hodge-podge of ajax, javascript and who knows what destroyed a half-hour's worth of my typing, so I'm going to link to a REAL wiki here, maybe one that believes in fields and forms.

Sanding and Polishing

JLPicard — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:37:46 CST

Information cut and pasted from Admactanium's post
materials

this is just what i use. all this stuff adds up so it's not exactly in-keeping with the cheapness of the paint job. but here it is:

porter cable 7424
makita bo6040
lake country polishing pads: yellow cutting, orange power pad, white polishing.
menzerna polishes: intensive polish, final polish II.
3m wetsanding paper. grits: 800, 1000, 1500, 2000 (although i hear that meguiars unigrit papers are better).

sanding

• prep your wetsand papers by soaking them in a bucket of water with some dish soap in it for lubrication. an hour or so. you want to soften up the backing paper so you don't get any stiff corners that can lead to deeper scratches.

• start with a fairly high (low number) grit wetsanding paper. 1000 or 800 if you have a lot of orangepeel and imperfections.

• use a sanding block of some sort on the flats. you can use some flexible backer for sanding any curvy spots. like a brillo pad or something of that nature. be VERY careful around edges because the paint naturally is thinner in that area so you can easily sand through.

• get a cheap plastic squeegee from the hardware store. you can use this to clear off the water in sections to check your progress. what you'll start to see is a matte surface with shiny spots. what you're doing is levelling the high spots (peaks) down to the level of the valleys.

• when the shiny spots start to get smaller and are nearly gone. move to lower grit papers (higher numbers). 1200 or 1500. the goal when progressing through the papers is to completely eliminate the sanding marks from the previous grit. you'll learn to see that happen.

- you can sand in a perpendicular direction and it'll help you see when you're finishing up on one level.

• by now the shiny spots should be disappearing and you should be left with only a matte surface. you can’t really finish it up properly until you’ve completely leveled the peaks to the same level as the valleys.

• i usually go to about 2000 grit since it makes polishing that much easier. you can go up to 3000 grit i think but i haven’t usually done that.

on to the polishing

• there are a few different types of machines you can use. or you can go by hand if you don’t mind doing a lot of hard work on it. polishers usually have foam pads that attach to a backing plate by velcro. there are other attachment methods but velcro is the most common.

the three common types of polishing machines are these:

- random orbital: the most commonly used one of these is the porter cable 7424. basically these machines just jiggle the pad very quickly in a random fashion. the benefit of these is that they are very safe when it comes to burning through the paint. they don’t generate much heat. the downside is that it takes longer to polish out imperfections and there are limits to what it can do.

- a dual action forced rotation: these aren’t very common. i have one model from makita, the bo6040. the other popular model of this is the festool rotex. these machines have dual mode. one that works the same way as the PC. in another mode, they work both like a PC and a Rotary. it forces the pad to rotate while also jiggling. this is a nice machine. i like mine. they can be used in ultimate safety mode like a random orbital but it also cuts more strongly with the rotary action.

- rotary: this is the fastest cutting machine but also the most dangerous. they’re also a bit more difficult to control. these machines only spin the pads. as you can imagine, the outer edges of the pads can get moving pretty quickly and they have a lot of cut and power. however, it’s much easier to cut through with one of these and they also tend to leave buffer trails in most users hands. you see this commonly on cars detailed by bad detailers. they look like holograms. circular swirling holograms.

the pads:

• there are a lot of different brands of pads to use with these machines. for the most part the same pads can be used on all the different types of polishers. the pads will be color coded based on their cut or aggressiveness. it’s hard to say definitively which pads do what because different manufacturers use different color codes. most often though yellow will be a “cutting” pad and white will be a “polishing” pad. cutting being more aggressive than polishing.

the polishes:

again, there are plenty of different brands of polishes. i personally use menzerna polishes. and again, there are different levels of aggressiveness in each product line. menzerna has 3 main products (in order of INCREASING aggressiveness):
final polish II, intensive polish, and power gloss.

there’s another line called poorboys that gets good reviews and of course there’s meguiars stuff that’s available at most locations. all of them are good. it usually just comes down to personal preference.

all of these modern polishes (not the tin can stuff you get at the auto parts store) use diminishing abrasives. what that means is that the grit of the polishes break down over time the longer they’re worked. the benefit of this is that it basically does the “step down” grit process we were doing with the sandpapers on its own. that’s why it’s important to make sure you’re breaking down the polishes well and letting them fully work otherwise you’ll have a hazy surface.

the process:

i only have the first two. so i’ll start with the yellow pad on my dual action and use some intensive polish. you should spritz the pad with some water to moisten it to begin.

• i use the yellow pad and apply some intensive polish directly to the pad in an x pattern. then, with the machine off, i dab the pad against the surface to spread the polish around evenly. i’ll even smear the area with the machine off.

• then i start the machine on a low speed. use that slow speed to distribute the product over a small area: maybe 2’ x 2’. when the machine is slow really take your time moving it around and apply a bit of pressure.

• you’ll start to notice the polish working in and the surface should be changing a bit already. keep going while increasing the machine’s speed. that will help the polish break down further. with the menzerna polishes you keep going until they’re nearly completely transparent.

• then change the pads on the machine and use a lower grit polish. so in my case it would be a white pad with menzerna final polish II. go through the same process with the white pad and lower grit polish. until it’s nearly all hazed out and gone.

• i’d personally finish with the pc or the random orbit mode and the lighter polish just to make sure i’ve taken out all the previous polishing marks.

you have to check your progress on this as you go. if you’re still seeing sanding marks, it’s not likely that you’ll get them out with polishing. you need to get those out in sanding. that’s why it’s important to constantly check in the sanding process to see that you’ve removed the previous level’s sanding marks.

that's basically it. from there i use a cleaner wax and then a sealant to finish it up. but i wouldn't use a sealant on a newly painted surface for at least a couple months. it has to have time to completely dry and outgas.

i'd say the most important step in the whole process from these types of paintjobs is the sanding process. you need to get all the orange peel and waves/brushmarks out of the paint before you polish. and you REALLY need to step down in grit on the papers. most polishes will not polish out much more than 1500 grit sanding marks. if you don't step down you can get a shiny surface but you'll have shiny looking sanding marks. most of the polishing attempts i've seen on this thread so far fail from not enough time and care taken in wetsanding and getting a perfectly flat surface with a low enough grit.

Aussie Driver:
My process was to wetsand with 1200 and then with 1500 to remove the orange peel and to get the paint nice and flat as well as smooth as possible.

I used the Poorboys SSR2.5 for the cutting along with a Wolfgang 6.5" yellow cutting pad. I then experimented with the SSR2.5 on a Wolfgang 6.5" orange light cutting pad for a second pass and this gave the paint a more glass like finish.

I use a random orbital polisher which has similar specs to a Porter Cable 7424. I spread the polish onto the panel with the polisher turned off, then I turned it on to the lowest speed setting to even the polish out for a minute or so, then I cranked up the speed on the polisher to max and worked in the polish until almost all of the residue had disappeared.

When I did this I only had the single cutting pad and this really slowed up the polishing as the pad became so clogged that I had to wash it and then rinse it after completing each section of the hood. I was working on fairly small areas of the hood, basically I polished about a quarter of the hood each time, then I'd wash/rinse the cutting pad and then do the next area.

I have ordered a second cutting pad and some Poorboys SSR3 which is described as a "heavy duty compound" compared to the SSR2.5 which is a "medium abrasive". Theoretically the SSR3 should produce a slightly flatter finish and do it faster than the SSR2.5. It should arrive in the next day or so, and once I have had a chance to play with it I'll post up some more pics of those results.

I'm still experimenting on my exact polishing sequence, but at the moment I'm leaning towards using either the SSR3 or SSR2.5 with a Wolfgang yellow cutting pad, then the SSR2.5 with a Wolfgang orange light cutting pad, followed by a couple of passes of SSR1 with a Wolfgang white polishing pad to improve the clarity of the reflection.

Home

JLPicard — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:29:49 CDT

Welcome to wet paints wiki on how to paint your car. It was started to document the information in a Mopart.com thread about using a roller to paint your car yourself for less than $50. It's been made more general to hopefully account for all things releated to trying to paint your car yourself. Especially since so many things are related.

Preparation
High Quality Professional Paint
Maaco
Roller Method
Rattle Can Method
Interlux Brightside Topside Boat Urethane Paint
Sanding and Polishing

Rollering Interlux Brightside Polyurethane Paint

JLPicard — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:28:48 CDT

Compiling many posts by Marq dealing with Brightside paint in progress

Step #1
a) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.
b) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car.
c) Coat #1 thinned 10% with #333. No need to wet sand this step.

d) Let paint cure for 24 hours.

Step #2
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents that may have fallen on your first layer of paint while it was curing.
b) Coat #2 thinned 10% with #333.
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.

e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.

Step #3
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #3 thinned 5% with #333. No need to wet sand this step unless there are any visual defects that you want to address. If so...wet sand with 400 to 600 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.
e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly.

f) Let sit for 24 hours .

Step 4
a) using a Tack cloth wipe down entire body of car to get any dust, bugs, hair or other contaminents off the paint.
b) Coat #4 thinned 5% with #333 or straight from the can ( depending on your confidence level at this point ).
c) Let dry 24 hours.
d) Wet sand with 800 or 1000 grit looking to level the surface so that it is level, with no ripples, bubbles, etc.

e) Wash car down thoroughly with cloth and bucket of water with a little bit of liquid detergent ( dish detergent ). Rinse thoroughly. Let sit and thoroughly dry.

You should at this stage be able to do a 1500 wet sanding and then a 2000 wet sanding - with thorough washings and rinsing at the end of each wet sand session.

The body 'should' have a uniform dull shine at this point with no patches of 'shiny' in the otherwise dulled but somewhat shiney surface.

How long between painting and wetsanding? - Always at least 24 hours... the manufacturer recommends 18 hours... but times will vary due to temperatures, humidity, etc.

How long between wetsanding and painting? The body needs to be thoroughly washed down after the wet sanding. So 24 hours is a good rule of thumb to ensure that no moisture is left in the roughened paint.

How long between wetsanding and polishing? When you get to the final step four.. you will be doing a series of wet sandings, increasing the grit with each sanding. Then you will have to again give the car a thorough wash down. So again it is worthwhile to let the car dry for 24 hours if for no other reason than to give yourself a break and so that you can be 'fresh and wide awake' when you begin the polishing stage.

How long between polishing and waxing? Once you complete your polishing to a level of shine and gloss that is acceptable to you... you can proceed to the wax stage almost immediately to seal up all the work you did.

Well... each day brings a new learning discovery... and hopefully we can share what we learn about working with Brightside to help others out....

a ) When working with Brightside.... you are suppose to roll on the paint... and then go over that area with a foam brush gently to make the bubbles disappear. Today I must have looked like a mad man because what I was doing was :
a ) rolling on the paint
b ) using a 3 inch foam brush to float over it and magically pop the bubbles
c ) then using a second 3 inch brush to go over the area and lightly assist the paint to level.

The way things work out... the first brushing of the rolled paint tends to pick up paint on the roller. Yet by the time I use the clean second foam brush it is able to glide over the paint and enhance the levels. So if you don't mind looking foolish with one roller and two foam brushes in your hand... this technique may help you get even smoother results.

b ) Today was very hot and humid. I was noticing that after about 20 minutes of painting, the paint in the tray was applying differently on to the car. I did not have as much 'grace time' to work the bubbles and then do the leveling pass with the second roller. It would appear that the solvent in the paint was evaporating fairly quickly due to the hot working conditions in my garage today.

Now... this Brightside paint uses M. E. K. (METHYL ETHYL KETONE as a thinner.

They say that Ketone is very similar to Acetone but with a much slower evaporation rate and that it can be used for the same applications as Acetone. But from what I am seeing in very hot working conditions... this Ketone stuff is evaporating fairly quickly...

NOW... by accident I decided to try cutting the Brightside paint with some of the 'regular' mineral spirits that I had left from my Tremclad experiment. It works and the paint acts just like it is suppose to with the bubbles, the magic wipe of the first foam brush to pop bubbles and the level assisting wipe with the second foam brush.

So the point of this bit of exploration and discovery may be of assistance to anyone applying Brightside in very hot working conditions. You can cut the paint with about 5% to 10% Ketone OR mineral spirits and you will have a little more 'working time' for applying and perfecting each layer that you are applying.

c ) The third discovery today is a way to detect when the surface that you have just rolled is drying too fast and that you should touch up the paint in the tray with a little mineral spirit or Ketone...

When the paint is drying too fast because of the heat... you will notice that when you drag your foam brush over the paint ( to pop the bubbles or to assist in leveling ) that the foam brush will 'stutter' as you drag it over the paint. It is almost like the paint grabs the brush, lets it go... grabs it.. lets it go ... and the faster the stuttering of the foam brush the sooner you had better quit dragging the brush over the paint or it will leave a record of the 'stuttering' in the paint you are working on.

If this 'stuttering' happens to you... do not try to rework or rewet the area to remedy it. Simply stop working on that spot. There is a good chance that it may 'self level' itself. However, if when it dries you can see where the 'stuttering' took place, just hit it with the wet sanding to remove the 'stuttering.

If you rewet the area by reloading your roller or your foam brush on that area... you will just exagerate the problem and it 'may' lead to too much paint on that spot ( which you are going to have to wet sand out anyhow ).

The only problem with using highly diluted Brightside is that it will obviously take more coats to get full coverage... and you will need to revert to just straight uncut Brightside for the final layer in order to get the maximum shine and gloss on that final layer. ( Highly thinned Brightside doesn't produce anything near the high gloss of the unthinned product ).

Now... if you were talking about using the roll and tip with the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint the same rules probably apply. It is best to pass the magic brush over the bubbles as soon after applying the paint. Since the coating of Tremclad/Rustoleum is pretty thin it should only take a very light passing of the brush.

I have been doing some additional reading about the 'roll and tip' method used by boater and the 'very best' results that they obtain seem to be one of the following two methods :

a ) use your one favorite 4" china bristle paint brush... and between each panel put it in the mineral spirit or thinning fluid to clean the brush... or

b ) if you are using the disposable foam brushes... try to use three brushes... one for each side of the car and one for the hood and trunk.

The biggest problem the boaters find with the 'roll and tip' is that the 'tipping brush' tends to load up with paint.

If you are only using one tipping brush and if it takes about one hour to completely walk around the car rolling and tipping... then the paint on the 'tipping brush' could conceivably be up to one hour old on the brush by the time you hit the last panel.

So by using a number of fresh brushes OR keeping your one good brush constantly cleaned between doing panels you can avoid the problem of 'paint build up' on the brush having an adverse effect on the effective smoothing of the coating you are popping bubbles on.

I just thought of some more 'secret' hints that I stumbled across while using the Brightside paint and it they are equally applicable for the Tremclad/Rustoleum guys.

Discovery ONE : If your paint on a panel goes to h*ll... try a fluid soaked roller...

While working on the trunk lid things went bad. The paint started drying too quickly and started getting tacky. I tried to work the paint with extra rolling to try to level it out.. but it just got worse. I walked away from the car mad as h*ll because I figured I was going to have sand the trunk down and start it over ( when the rest of the car was already basically finished. I guess you can guess how pizzed off I was.

So I got mad and I figured that since it was screwed up there was nothing I could do that would make it worst. So I had a little light bulb go off in my head. I went to my paint tray and I dumped a ton of brushing fluid in with the remaining little bit of paint that was still in the tray. I would say the mixture was about 70% brushing fluid ( ketone ) and only 30% paint.

I lathered up the roller with a full load of this mixture and I started reworking the trunk lid.

MIRACLE UPON MIRACLE.. the paint on the trunk lid began flattening and spreading beautifully. This saturation of brushing fluid was able to save the day and the trunk lid turned out perfect.

So I mention this story just in case one of the panels you are working on goes to h*ll in a hand cart. Curse at it for a minute and then try a highly saturated roller to try to remedy what might appear to be a lost cause.

I suspect this 'last ditch' suicide effort might also work for the Tremclad/Rustoleum applicators as well. If the paint on the panel you are working on appears to be suddenly welling up and turning to orange peel... or if the roller marks are too visible and not levelling out... or if the surface has gotten too tacky before you had worked the surface with your roller to the point where you were satisfied... this might work for you to save you from having to sand down a pile of your work..

DISCOVERY TWO : If the paint on a panel goes to h*ll - reach for a rag as a last ditch measure

When I was originally applying the Tremclad paint to my car... I had a similar problem occur on the front driver's fender. I had just added a layer of Tremclad. Right before my eyes I could see that everything on that panel was going to h*ll... it looked like an instant case of severe orange peel. I cursed... I swore... I walked away knowing that I would have resand that panel down again and basically restart it.

So I decided to quit for the evening... because I was sooooo pizzed off at myself. I took a fresh cloth and soaked it with mineral spirits and started to clean my hands. Then that little light bulb went off in my head again. I took the mineral soaked cloth over to the panel and began WIPING IT DOWN in long steady swipes. It took the crappy layer off and left me with the previous layer - in perfect shape and ready to just dry out and repaint it.

Sometimes the greatest discoveries are done totally by accident or from sheer frustration...

DISCOVERY THREE : Two rollers work better than a roller and a foam or bristle brush

This probably ranks right up there with my other accidental discovery of using two rollers... one to roll the fresh paint and a fresh one to just roll over the fresh paint to level it, pop bubbles and work out any track marks left by the 'painting' roller.

DISCOVERY FOUR : Don't bother with 6" foam rollers

Ooooh... one last tidbit of info that I thought I would share. My experiment with the six inch high density foam roller was basically a failure. Although it seemed in theory to be better at laying down paint... it turns out that the FOUR inch high density foam roller gives you far better control. The only value you might find with the six inch roller is to use it as the secondary roller ( as described above ) to go over the paint laid down by the FOUR inch roller. But frankly you might as well use the four inch roller for the painting and the secondary rolling. I truly believe that the dual rolling works out better than the roller and brush method...

a ) if you have successfully laid down a smooth and glossy final coat of paint... you might wish to stop at that point and live with that finish for a month. It will give the paint time to reach maximum hardness... but more importantly you will save yourself all the work of wetsanding, compounding and waxing. But please note that YOU CAN go to wet sanding and compounding within 24 hours of that final coat of paint being applied.

b ) if your final coat of Brightside gives you anything less then what you were hoping for... then breakout out the wet sanding and go from 1000, to 1500 to 2000. Then go for a compounding with the Turtle Wax compound product to rejuvenate the shine that was lost during the wetsanding. Once you have reached that level of shine from the compounding... go to the waxing stage. As previously noted... I had my best luck with Meguiars pure Carnuba and Meguiars High Tech wax. The 'High Tech' wax is a polymer and so it was more successful at giving the paint a deeper and darker look. The Carnuba wax was better at developing a high gloss.

COMPOUNDING

Exit, buffing with an agressive enough compound can do all the work wet sanding would. If you have only a little very even orange peel, buffing may very well be the way to go. I once had an insurance company have one of my cars fixed, one that I had bc/cc'd sanded and buffed. The first time they tried to give it back to me "fixed", the orange peel looked terrible (compared to a near perfect paint job, probably was on par with a stock paint job). I told them to fix it right and don't call me again until it was really fixed. When I finally picked it up, they had done a nice job with the finish. They told me that they didn't send it back to the paint shop, they just had it buffed out. I wouldn't use the turtle was buffing compound that charger69 had been talking about. There is nothing wrong with that stuff, but it is intended to be the final buff before wax. Like I said, I have had great experience with 3M compounds from NAPA. It's going to put the paint job over the $50 figure though.

There is one thing I want to clear up, because I'm not sure everyone knows the difference. Generally there are 3 types of pastes we use to finish a paint job. 1st is a rubbing compound, 2nd is a polishing compound, and 3rd is a wax. Rubbing and polishing compounds don't contain any wax, their purpose is to remove material from your finish. The work at different rates, based on how agressive thier abrasives are. Rubbing compound is for removing material quickly (scratches, light orange peel), it has harsh abrasives in it. Polishing compound is for bringing a shine to dull paint, it contains mild abrasives. The rubbing compound (harsh) will leave your paint dull, but not scratched. The polishing compound (mild) will take that dull finish and turn it into a shine. If you skip the rubbing compound after you wet sand, you will spend a very long time buffing (very safe, slow method), otherwise (if you stop early) you will end up with a foggy, scratched, and mildly shiny finish. In the later case you would have a better shine if you didn't wet sand, but your finish would have some orange peel.

Wax is entirely different then rubbing and polishing compounds. Wax leaves a shiny protective film on top of your paint. Although I believe charger69 when he says waxing his paint immediately after finishing didn't hurt the paint, I don't believe it is the BEST way to do it. The best way to do it (my opinion) would be to wait the month or so until the paint is completely hard before you sand and buff. I don't think this is the only way to get an excellent finish (obviously by charger69 and Exits buffed red), but I think it may be the way to get the best possible finish.

There are many different 'grits' of rubbing and polishing compounds. If you stay with a line of products, you can be relatively sure you are going with the right progression. One thing to watch our for, if you seem to be getting a poor results with one step of buffing, it is probably because you stopped the prevoius step too early. You can continue with the current grit for a long time to make up for that, or you can go back and finish the previous step.

the only reason why i reccommend the turtle wax polishing coumpound is because it yeilds a awesome shine without any chance of burning thru the paint, let's face it, most of these people trying this method are painting virgins, and to throw in buffing, it's a bit too much. buffing is a art in itself, and takes years of practice. if someone wants to do a paintjob themselves, and have little expirience, then if they follow my steps they will most likely be able to pull off a nice job. i have alot expirence in buffing, wetsanding and cutting new paint, for the tremclad/rustoleum process, waiting a month does nothing, the paint flashes in 1 day, after that it just gets harder but from my expirence does not "vent" after 1 day. i wax immedieatly after buffing, wait about 1 day for dry time, in the sun preferably, and then straight to wetsand and buff.

However i completely agree with all your statments, you obviously have alot of expirence in the buffing field, but i'm just trying to suggest the best, eaisiest, cheapest, most realiable way to buff tremclad/rustoleum; although your advise is dead on regarding auto paints be it single stage, or BC/CC. It's twice as eaiser to cut the paint after 1 day, if you wait more it would just take alot more time to buff, and i mean alot. Of course this is just advice from my expirence, but rubbing coumpound combined with a ele buffer would just burn the paint really quick, even after a month of drying time, i found waxing the paint right after buffing almost makes the shine permenant, and i do have the longterm results to prove it!!!! otherwise excellent advice on buffing for the more "advanced" users.

This may be music to my ears. It's been a few weeks since my last post. My test piece has been a hood, and I'm painting with black Brightside. I've been having a hard time with the wetsanding.... inevitably I end up sanding through to metal on high edges. Another frustration is my sandpaper suctioning down to the panel, inhibiting the sanding motion, or paper sticking to the wet panel instead of the sanding block. It also seems like I'm using up the sandpaper so fast that I spend more time changing paper and loading up the block than I do wetsanding. I think I'm doing something wrong. I've been getting better, but I'm kind of getting burned out on working on the same panel without getting it finished to satisfaction. 1000-1500-2000 or 1200-1500-2000.

I've done what I hope is to be my final coat of paint, and I really didn't have much orange peel. I like the roller process, and each time I screw up my attempt at wetsanding, it gives me a chance to practice rolling. I will have to touch up a couple tiny spots along edges, but I'd prefer not to re-coat the entire panel because I'd be rendering moot (again) all of the wetsanding I've already invested.

So, if the rubbing compound can be done with the cheap buffer in lieu of major wetsanding, I'd like to consider this method. ...Which brings me now to the Turtle Wax (paste) Polish. I tried this on my 2000-wetsanded finish, and I was unable to come up with the "gun finish" gloss that I had before wetsanding. Let me be very clear about this, the Brightside black is ***GLOSSY*** straight out of the can! It really looks awesome. But no matter how long I spent with my cheap 6" random-orbit electric buffer with a brand new terry bonnet, I get a hazy gloss, not that awesome shine I had prior to wetsanding. I know, I know... 69Charger says to spend a LONG time with the buffer and polish... and I really did. About two hours. One spot especially so. Lots of polish. Plenty of water. But dang, I'm not gettin' that GLOSS! So would I be able to utilize *less* wetsanding, add the step of rubbing compound (cheapo Turtle brand? actually I have a little Meguire's in a tube already) with the terry on the cheapie polisher, then go to cheapie polish? And get that GLOSS??

Okay. Cheapie, cheapo, cheap. Let me also be clear that I have no reservations about spending a little more for better results. My time is valuable too... and I am considering investing in a nice DA buffer like Marq has done, and maybe going with a "Pro" compound such as System One (I like the idea of one compound that does everything instead of 2 or 3). I guess any way that I look at it I'm way overbudget, but still thousands less than having it done at a paint shop. The learning curve applies to purchases, too. I don't want to get suckered into buying an expensive product whose advertising makes it sound great only to be disappointed by ultimate results... any System One users out there?

So what you're seeing that the paint itself is polishing well but you haven't levelled the surface of your paint. go ahead and use a harder rubber sanding block and try to stay off the edges of the block. what you can do while wetsanding is to have a squeegee of some sort and just swipe dry a section every now and then. what you should see with the use of a block is spots of dull (matte) finish and spots of shiny finish. so you're abrading away the bumps and brushmarks and NOT abrading the low spots (valleys) of the bumps.

keep going until you squeegee off a section and it is solidly matte finish. until you get to that stage you will only polish the orange peel or brush marks to a shiny surface rather than really getting that flat finish you like. don't be afraid to start with a lower grit paper to cut down the bumps. you're going to have to remove that paint either way, so using 2000 gt only wastes more of your time. you just have to be careful not to cut through. so use 800 or something until the shiny spots are getting smaller. once the shiny spots are almost done then switch to different less aggresive grades of paper.

go from 800 > 1000/1200 > 1500 > 2000 > even 3000 if you're ambitious. but what you need to do at each stage is make sure you're sanding off the marks from the previous grade of sandpaper. with enough experience you'll start to see what that means.

when you polish, you could use a porter cable but i recently bought a makita ro6040 for detailing which has a forced rotation mode along with it's random orbital action. it cuts faster. you'd want to get at least some decent foam pads from a good detail supply house (properautocare, autogeeks) etc. i'd recommend a yellow cutting pad and then perhaps a medium pad. some manufacturers have them as orange powerpads or whatnot, but each manufacturer uses different color scheme. together with a diminishing abrasive polish like the poorboys, 3m, meguiars or menzerna powergloss/intensive polish and final polish you should get a mirror finish.

Roller Method

Morwan — Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:13:56 CDT

Some very fine results can be had simply using a roller and the right kind of paint. This can cost under $50

The roller method page is a compilation of the information from a mopart.com thread. Thread Part 1 and Thread Part 2 As the thread is quite large please use the thread page compiled page to sign off on pages that have been compiled into this wiki. Many different people contributed to that thread. When ever possible the wiki should try to give credit to the appropriate sources. If anyone would like information removed please just say so or remove it yourself and be sure to state why so it doesn't just get readded. The base compilation for this page was started by Morwan (Morwan Osman)'s PDF (Thread Part 2 pg 13).

Base Method

FAQ

Roller Method Frequently Asked Questions

Materials

1 Gal Acrylic-Enamel Paint (Rustoleum Professional Protective Enamel, Tremclad)
1 Gal 100% Mineral Spirits (Available at some Sears, also at Advance Auto Parts)
1 QT Lacquer Thinner (Used for prep)
4 4'' Ultra-smooth foam rollers
2 foam wedge brushes
80/100/200/600/800/1000 grit sandpaper

Method

Prep the car
Thinning The Paint

In a separate container, thin the paint with mineral spirits until it has about the consistency of milk. Depending on the temperature/humidity, this may be 20 - 50% Mineral Spirits.
Roll the paint onto a test piece. Any bubbles should disappear within a few seconds, and the paint should be self-leveling.

Painting

Soak up a small amount of paint onto the 4" roller, and then apply a coat of paint to the car. You should be 'forcing' the paint out of the roller, resulting in a very thin coat. Use the foam brush to get at tough spots, like crevices/fender wells, etc.
Allow the coat to dry. This may take 8-24 hours, depending on the humidity.
Apply another coat.
Wetsand with 600, apply another two coats, wetsand 800, apply another two coats, and then wetsand with 1000 grit.
After the paint has fully cured (this may take several weeks), buff to a shine with a high-speed polisher and buffing compound.

Paints That Work

Rust-o-leum Professional & Stops Rust brands, Tremclad, and Interlux Brightside.

Paint Thinners

100% Mineral Spirits: The best you can get.
Low Odor Mineral Spirits: Possibly works better with warmer temperatures, slightly slower evaporation time than pure mineral spirits.
Penetrol: Can be used in tandem w/ mineral spirits, does not work well alone (disputed). Penetrol dramatically lengthens drying time due to slower evaporation.

Hints

Roll with one hand, and hold the brush in the other.
If there's any orange peel at any step in the process you have to get rid of it before doing any more painting. Then, just keep the coats thin and the mixture thin and you should be fine. I think if the hood was propped on it's side, or otherwise not horizontal, that paint would have lots of runs in it, but since it's got no where to go, it just orange peels. (exit1965)
If you're getting orange peel, you're puttting the paint on too thick. Same thing with bubbles.
The number of coats you need depends on the color of your prepped surface and of the paint. Yellow and red take 8-10 coats
Make sure to try some test pieces before applying paint to your car. A fender is the true test as it has both horizontal and vertical surfaces, creases and curves - a little bit of everything. (ricklandia)
Instead of having the roller full of paint and then just letting it drop down and then rolling it on the car (which causes a lot of thick spots where the roller first touches) I drain the roller very well so it's not completely soaked and then just pressing down somewhat hard get thin coats. (Bakuryu)
Work fast and don't spend 5 minutes on one area trying to get rid of bubbles because if you have odorless, at least in my case, the bubbles are evaporating by themselves and what are leftover I just go over with the roller slightly. (Bakuryu)
In my case I had to keep rethinning the paint in the bucket (I mixed the paint and minneral spirit in a bucket and then poured it into a tray). It would dry and slowly get thicker don't know why, but it's not that extreme. (Bakuryu)
Take your time, go slowly. Because if you try to rush it, get ready for a lot of hard work. (Bakuryu)
For problems with bubbles: Thin the paint as normal and apply with the foam roller. Once you have done a small area go over that, ever so lightly, with the tip of a foam brush. The bubbles disappear and the brush streakes fade to nothing in a minute or two. (Senna)

Individuals Methods

This should be used to document certain individuals exact methods. ie 69chargeryeehaa's and others without the mix of others data.

69chargeryeehaa's Method

Projects

These are whole cars. Try and give as much data as possible. ie paint, color, tempature, humidity
69chargeryeehaa's - Charger - Orange - 69chargeryeehaa's Method
69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle - Orange - 69chargeryeehaa's Method
69chargeryeehaa's - 71 VW Beetle - midnight blue metalic - sprayed on (comparison to other work)
VW Bug (Sail Blue?)
(Royal Blue)
(Gloss White)
BRE Style 240Z

Experiments

Just quick tests. Try and give as much data as possible. ie paint, color, tempature, humidity

Roller Thread page compiled

Jack783 — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:01:43 CDT

The roller method page is a compilation of the information from a mopart.com thread. Thread Part 1 and Thread Part 2

Please use this page to "sign off" on pages that have been previewed for content and then added to the wiki. Just add your "call sign" next to the page number. Thanks.

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69chargeryeehaa's Method

Jack783 — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:00:33 CDT

Here's how i painted my car for about $50, it's actually very easy and the results are amazing. The thing i really like about this is that there's no mess, no tapeing the whole car, just key areas, and you can do it in your garage, since your not spraying there is virtually no dust in the air, just clean your garage first, also it does'nt really smell at all, dries overnight and it super tough paint. also it you decide to paint the car professionally later, just prep and paint, there's no need to strip the tremclad. i have done this to a few cars, and i can say it works amazing, you just have to be paitient.

Keep in mind i know a little about painting, i've shoot a few cars with single stage enamel with professional results, but it's expensive and tedious.

i have sprayed a few cars in my garage with a single stage acrylic enamel and it's a pain, messy, stinks, ect... the tremclad is almost odorless and is really easy to work with.
since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start.

depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can.

prepping is 90% of the work, stripping the car, sanding, ect.....painting is overrated!!!
So if you have TIME, then i'd say go for it, the worst that could happen is that it does'nt turn out and your out $50, but if your paitient, and expriement with lets say just the trunk pannel and if you like it do the whole car, if not just get it done by someone else for $4000. i don't know about you guys, but i would rather spend the $4000 on other parts like getting the mechanics sorted out and new chrome, cause when u have really nice paint and crappy bumpers, door handles it just sticks out more.

Get Materials aproximatly $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...):
- Get a can of tremclad (Canada, in US rustoleum or somthing like that) real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. make sure it's the new stuff like a enamal, or acrylic enamal. goes right over anything and doesntt react with any old paint, right over bondo, don't use any primer, just the paint it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear, very hard to scratch, but easy to buff.
  - Warning!: don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week!!!
  - Note:when i painted with the Tremclad i just use the paint, no primer, nothing, just the paint, right over bondo.
  - Note: while not necessary for the paint to stick some people have found that primer can help to make the base consistent for a consistent color with no show through.
  - Note: On a car i used to have i had it professionally painted 4 yrs after i painted it and they put a base/clear on it with no isues.
  - Note: the paint is tough, like stove paint when it's done, i've spilt gas on it in like really hot weather, and it resists stone chips really well. i had a rock hit my hood so hard it sounded like someone thru a golfball at my car really hard, i did'nt even want to look, but there was no chip, just bit of dust at the impact sight. that paint is really good stuff.
  - Note: i had to repaint a fender on the beetle like 2 yrs ago, so i just got a small can of paint 3 yrs later and the color match is exact.
  - Note: thing i like about this paint ALOT is that there's no need for primer, primer sealer, ect.. it really simplifies the process. shooting a base clear or single stage acrylic enamel is a pain, u have "windows" to shoot each coat, and putting the primer sealer on, you have to shoot color within 30 mins or 15 days, man what if something goes wrong?
- Jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint.
  - the tequnique is critical, u have to have a "feel" for how much to thin the paint and u have to use mineral spirits, not paint thinner like varsol.
Prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow it to be painted over bare metal.
- i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200, finished with a 400,
Thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker.
Get out the roller and paint away,
1. do 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car)
  - The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running, and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass, wet sanding just makes it better, it all depends on how much time u have.
  - Hint First you paint the surface, and then really lightly "skim" the surface with the weight of the roller only to remove any lines bubbles ect, then just leave it for a minute or two and you'll see it just "self levels" totally flat to glass.
  - It does "self Level" on the sides just as it does on the flat level surfaces.
2. wet sand the whole car (with 600)
  - this paint dries FAST, so literally you can wetsand overnight. (but make sure it is completely dry before sanding)
  - i did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing. using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up, so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy (dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks.
3. 2 more coats
4. wetsand ( with 800)
5. 2 more final coats
6. wetsand with about 1000-1500 grit to a totally smooth finish
  - use a spray bottle and keep the paper really wet
7. Using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound
  - buff with a random orbit polisher using the cheapest turtle wax POLISHING compound it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white, allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!! NOT the rubbing compound, its' to harsh
  - hint: when u wet sand the final coat, the paint looks flat, like velvet, if you take a rag soaked with mineral spirits and whipe a spot down that you just sanded, that's what it will look like buffed. if you buff and decide to paint again clean the area with mineral spirts so that and residue from the polishing compound is removed or the paint won't stick.
8. Wax, done......

Examples:
69chargeryeehaa's - Charger - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle - Orange - using this method
69chargeryeehaa's - 71 VW Beetle - midnight blue metalic - sprayed on

i first painted a 85 honda crx at my cottage in 1 day, i had no money, i did like 3 coats with no sanding and it looked great, i should scan that old pic and show you!!!. The job only looks as good as the time and effort that you put into it. the paint is extreemly durable, think about it, it's used to paint over rusted metal on things like tractors, metal railings, ect... and stand the elements. it is formulated to do just that.

Questions
I wonder how well it would look if you did this roller method, then followed up by shooting a coat of clear over top of it? --70Cuda383

i probally would say it would turn out very nice. but the workability of the paint would end there, besides the paint buffs to mirror so i see no need for a clear coat. they have a clear coat in the tremclad brand made for the paint but i don't think it's nescessary. i reciently buffed out a huge scratch when a guy tried to jump me at a drive thru atm (long story!!!) and i florred it ran over his feet turning tires, and pinned him between the wall and my car. the whole rear quarter had a really bad scuff, maybe it was his teeth and the buttons on his jacket, anyways it buffed right out, with clear it would be hard to do that. so i would say there's no need for clear unless you really want a show car finish. -- 69chargeryeehaa

I could not even imagine how well it would turn out if you sprayed it with a HVLP gun and wet sanded and polished.

-- 69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg 1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know this is a messy copy paste but I hope to clean it up later.

What temp?

As far as temperature goes it really doesn’t matter, I did my 74 beetle in the dead of winter, it was like -20 deg Celsius, I had a portable heater in the garage and 2x 1500W flood lights, I was warm enough. The charger I did this past September in about 25 deg Celsius and it was really humid with no difference, where when I sprayed a single stage on the 71 beetle I had to use the proper temperature reducer. As far as getting this paint to stick, all I can say is that it is made to be painted on BARE and RUSTED metal. The stuff sticks to rubber, glass, anything, like sh*t on a blanket (if you have kids you'll know what I mean !!! lol). I have no issues or question in my mind that this stuff sticks like crazy to bare metal. I'm sure it would stick on epoxy primer if you sand it with 800 grit before. I have never had any reaction to anything that I’ve painted over, I’ve painted motorcycle gas tanks and plastic covers, 3 cars, over base clear, the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, no issues. I’ve painted over automotive primer on my 74 beetle where I had exposed metal and knew I would leave it exposed for a while and didn’t want it to rust. I painted right over bondo, where I had a few really minor scratches and dents that I couldn’t bang out, no issues. I had a drop of the paint on glass, it was really hard to get off, I was afraid to use a razor because it could scratch my new windshield so I used a credit card and it was really, really hard to get off. I painted the door jambs, under trunk lid, under hood, everything. Try one panel and see it if works, u have to experiment with it, it took a lot of trial and error for me to get the "technique" down pat. my car is by no means a show car, but I couldn’t justify a $5000 paint job after just buying the car for $11000, buying new bumpers, door handles, emblems, all rubber, windshield, brake booster, heater core, headliner, carpet, door panels, brakes, ect....I spent all my money on the aesthetics, and mechanics, not to mention the car. I kind of rushed the charger because I HAD to drive my dream car as soon as I could. My 74 beetle I really took my time with and it is and looks like a $5000 paint job. I used a foam brush to paint the jambs and tight spots, and just ran the foam roller over it to smooth it out. I used tremclad flat black in a spray can for the rear tail panel on the charger.

Here are a bunch of close up good high res pics I just took of the car and the supplies I used and a few other pics of the beetle’s I painted:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/?start=0

69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2

_______----------------------------------------------------

well basically i have the roller in one hand, and the foam "paint brush" (in the pics) in the other. you have to work fast because the paint becoms non workable in about 10 mins. so i do one pannel at a time. it goes quickly, takes about 1 hour for a coat on the whole car, i've done 2 coats in 1 day no issues, it dries fast. but for wet sanding i wait overnight. basically in the rain channels i would use the brush and cover it completely, then use the rounded end of the roller and go over it, it's hard to describe, u just have to be paitent and expirement on one pannel like the trunk lid and do the whole process and see if your happy, it's easy to bail the project with only having to re-do the trunklid if you can't handle it or have one of those "what the f*&k am i doing" moments!!!. I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat. Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!!

69chargeryeehaa Thread 1 pg2
The shine on the cars (both the orange bug and the Charger)does not seem that deep. Maybe its the angle of the pictures...Would you say the shine is every bit as deep as any sprayed car you've seen? I'm not trying to be critical, just want to know what I may be getting myself into here. I still think its a great idea and give you a lot of credit for trying it and more importantly, making it work.

i would not compare the shine to a base clear paint job, but i would compare it to a good single stage acrylic enamel paint job. plus the more you buff the shinyer it gets, that's where i got lazy, but i plan to buff and wetsand more when i have the free time. i did the charger in 3 days, like i said i was ancy to get it done, doing the pee-pee dance dying to drive it so i rushed it a bit. in the sun it looks amazing, at night it looks perfect, in the shade you can see some flaws but i was not looking for a "perfect" paint job. the beetle however i did over the winter and it really looks good, no complaints. 3 weeks after i bought the charger i was driving it, it was totally stripped, re-did the interior, all the mechanics, and body work. it would have been done sooner if i would have got all the parts i ordered eariler. looking back i don't regret it at all, it was easy and got me on the road fast and cheep. I can allways re-do the paint anytime.

The paint on the car is not thick at all. 4 coats of paint that i sprayed on the 71 beetle midnight blue car (1 initial tack coat, 2 medium, and 1 flash coat to get the metalic uniform)used just over a can of paint with a HVLP gun on a beetle (they don't get smaller than that!!!) plus take into acount that about 1/3 is reducer. i used about 3/4 of a can on the charger, the paint is really thin. like i said eairler, you only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats. The charger is at least twice the surface area of the beetle, the paint on the 71 beetle is thicker than the paint on the charger and the 74 orange beetle. regarding the shine, if i spent 2 more days wetsanding and buffing the shine would be that of any professional single stage paint job on the charger. that being said like i mentioned earlier it depends on what YOU want out of the paint job, the thread topic is "paint job on a budget" and that is exactly what it is, plus i'm not paranoid about doing a dukes of hazzard drift on a dirt road and worrying about my precious paint. the car gets driven alot, and hard, every weekend to the cottage (400km round trip) and it gets stone chips, ect...so i'm not worried.

i'm not here to argue about the adhesion properties of the paint, the quality of the paint, what it really is, blah, blah, blah...i can say the paint IS MADE TO STICK TO BARE METAL, WOOD, FIBERGLASS, RUSTED METAL, CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, GRASS, GERBILS, basically anything (read the can). it's real easy to work with, does'nt smell at all (all you really smell is the mineral spirits used to thin the paint) plus i have had no reactions with underlying paint in any way shape of form on all the stuff i painted with it period. i would say it sticks roughly at least twice as good as any high quality single stage paint\primer\primer sealer out there. I've painted it in cold conditions and hot humid conditions with no issues. No fish eyes, peel, nothing. i've painted over it with single stage and BC/CC with NO ISSUES. The paint seems very inert, not prone to any of the stuff that auto paint is prone to. I have used the paint alot and can say it has not peeled, flaked off, nothing on anything i've used it on. Hell i even still have a 71 Kawasaki motorcycle i painted 15 years ago over the original paint and it still looks great.

TonyS451-there is no need for primer with this paint, if u have to use primer because you can't sleep at night then do so if u must, but trust me your just wasting your time. Automotive paints that are made for cars such as single stage or BC/CC are made to be sprayed, and NEED reducers/hardners to cure and dry properly, it's critical that they be used correctly, there is even different reducers depending on what temperatures u are shooting the paint in, so i would not compare this paint to auto paint nor try to roller auto paint. I have sprayed several cars, the 71 beetle in the pics as mentioned before was painted single stage acrylic enamel in my garage with a home made ventelation system, and i wetted down the floor when i was painting to keep dust down, and used a tack cloth ALOT. That car came out perfect, very hugh quality paint BUT it was a major pain in the butt, taping, dust, smell, washing paint out of my hair and nose for a week!!!!

well it just goes by "feel", theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker. if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run, but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin. and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.
There is no way i would try to roll on BC/CC it would definetly not work. that paint is ment to be atomized when sprayed, and you could never thin it down to the point where it does not run and is thin enough to apply. plus it would dry too fast with the correct reducers and flash over too quick. i think it would be impossible. when u just paint and sand, you're going to be sanding too much, and the paint is hard resulting in waves in the paint unless u sand really consistently, so the key is to lay it on thin and sand as little as possible, also when the paint layer is thin and the paint is thinned properly it "self levels" it's like bondo, u mix it up and it's just in a blob, let it sit for a few minutes and it flattens out, thats just what the paint does.
hope that helps

also i assume this only works for solid colors. have you tried doing stripes or anything?
yes, metalics are out of the picture here, no i haven't tried doing stripes but i imagine it would be easy.

What about when you have to paint the bulk of the car? Like the roof, pillars and rear 1/4's all at once cause they're all one piece? Doesn't the paint on the roof dry by the time you get done one side and then start on the other, or are you starting on the bottom of one side and working up across and down the other side of the car? Or does the light coats and sanding make it okay? I'm pretty much just wondering if you have any kind of a seam line on the top of the car. Lol, and I emailed a link to this thread to my brother, and he wants to do it to his rampage. It'd be a perfect candidate to try this out on, seeing as the roller job done by the previous owner is looking real bad these days.
i was wondering when someone would ask that question. well basically i do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at. then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe, that's where all the expirementing comes in to play

i can say i'm on 6 yrs and 35,000mi and counting on the orange 74 beetle

Just curious, what happens when you try rubbing compound? You mention its too rough. To me, it seems like an important step to eliminate from the finishing process. I know in my limited painting experience, if going from wet sanding directly to a machine glaze, the gloss would be knowhere near as deep as if I had used a rubbing compound first.

the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing, that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up, i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass, and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great

Shawn_at_USCT I'm going to give this a shot this weekend on my project car. In case anyone was wondering here's a pricelist from Lowes Home Improvement. This is an awesome thread.

Rustoleum $24.57 for all colors (1 gal)
Mineral Spirits $8.42
Foam brush w/ roller (4") $3.47
Foam brush refills (4") (2 pack) @ $3.47 (6 pack) @ $9.32
Flat foam brush (2").57 ea (3").74 (4").82
Roller tray (3 pack) $1.28
"Water" proof sandpaper (5 sheet pack) $2.97 all grits

I'll post before and after pics here or maybe I can get John to post some on the website. I'll also try to get dilution ratios if I remember at the time. Shawn_at_USCT

69chargeryeehaa's - 71 VW Beetle

Jack783 — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:23:01 CDT

painted by 69chargeryeehaa sprayed on
Color: midnight blue metalic (duplicolor)

I used duplicolor paint, primer, reducer and primer sealer on this car:

that car was painted midnight metalic blue, and flips awesome in the sun. a very hard color to do cause it's almost black and shows every imperfection. but as you can see in the pic it came out awesome. but the materials alone (paint, reducer, primer, primer sealer) cost about $250 CDN, which was alot, never mind the work.

Image 1:

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg
the car before

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture1.jpg

60chargeryeehaa's - Charger

Jack783 — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:16:31 CDT

69chargeryeehaa's Charger
Painted using 69chargeryeehaa's Method
Color: Orange (What exact color? ie paint companies name?)

i used the same paint on my orange beetle
i did the charger in about 3 days.

Image 1:

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02764.jpg

Image 2:

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02769.jpg

69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle

Jack783 — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:42:55 CDT

69chargeryeehaa's - 74 VW Beetle
Painted using 69chargeryeehaa's Method by 69chargeryeehaa
Color: Orange (What exact color? ie paint companies name?)

i painted the orange beetle in 1999, and it still looks like the day i painted it (Wed Jan 25 2006 11:34 AM), i used the same paint on my charger,

Image 1:

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture10.jpg

the car before

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/IM000475.jpg

another after pic

Other source of pic: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00164.jpg

Roller FAQ

Ricklandia — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:04:10 CDT

Q - What paint to use?
- A - ?
Q - What is the US equivilent of Tremclad? What are the differences?
- A - Rustoleum? www.rustoleum.com

Well I went to www.rustoleum.com and they gave me a choice between the U.S. and Canada sites-
so I went Canadian and they list Tremclad, so it is a Rustoleum Canadian product.
Now who knows how this translates down in the U.S. of A.?
-- noisydart Thread 1 pg 1

Q - What colors are available?
- A - For Spray cans only certains colors are available (see link). Brush on paints come in a variety of pre-mixed colors, depending on which variety you use (Stops-Rust, Professional, etc). The Rustoleum Professional does come in a Masstone Base which is tintable, however finding certified tinting (Rustoleum specific) may prove difficult. It has also been noted that the Masstone base may have already been discontinued. Spray colors. Brush colors.

Preperation

Jack783 — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:09:50 CDT

Any paint job can only be as good as the prep work done before painting. Skimp at this part and your paint job will look skimped on.

Tape up the car and remove extra trim. For trim either tape it up or wedge fishing line or if possible just take off altogether.
Clean the paint by wiping down the car with lacquer thinner. Use a lint-free cloth like an old t-shirt.
Sand with 80, 100, 220, and finally 400 grit.

Power tools do not work well for edges, so only use them on large flat areas.
Use a sanding block to keep everything even.